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  • #16
    Re: Hey, Just Saying Hello

    aaron, in a union shop, through a union apprenticeship. you get paid the going rate.

    back when i started in 1981, it started out at 5.89 an hour. that was 40% scale. the journeymen were at 16.85 an hour for the base pay. plus vacation and holiday, and travel. this was another 3.00 an hour.

    after the first year it went up to 60%. 3rd. year 80% and 4th. year 90%.

    not sure what the numbers are now. i do know that it's a 5 year apprenticeship now.

    even if you take a pay cut, i would still sign up in the union and get exposed to the best schooling and a real variety of jobs. not just service and repair.

    if you know how to install it in the first place and know what's under the ground and behind walls, you will know how to fix it down the road.

    honestly, 15 a hour sounds high, but then again i started in 1975 at 3.00 a hour

    rick.
    phoebe it is

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    • #17
      Re: Hey, Just Saying Hello

      Originally posted by Aaron91 View Post
      Do you HONESTLY see many 16 year olds with all these tools, and certification along with everything else I have going for me? You still don't think I'm worth $15 an hour? Ha maybe you should take a look at some of my work, I have some pictures if ya'll wanna see em?
      Ok you bought some tools. BFD Some of them look unused. You passed a backflow test, congrats Without a valid drivers license you are baggage. You are very young and alot to learn. Don't get cocky just because you are ahead of others the same age. Experience and financial stability will come in time with the right company. I'd would like to see some pics of your work.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Hey, Just Saying Hello

        Right, I understand what your saying, I just wanted a rough answer, yes or no, not you have to show your work, and prove yourself, I know all that.

        Freddy, I can do both, new work and service. I have service down like cake work, but who wouldn't after a year or so? I can do new work, but I'd like to strengthen up on it.

        Plumbers Crack, I'll always keep that door open and thanks for the offer.



        Here's a view from above. Here I installed a 1/4 turn frost proof hose bib.



        I think this pretty much sums how how clean and neat I'm about my work. If you look closely, you can see all the writing on the pipe is pretty straight. Not only does this leave a clean looking job, but shows the inspector what pipe I used and were, without having to get a ladder and check closely. If the piping will be a living area, I usually turn the writing to the wall.



        The main water line was a 1" well pipe, and I went from there.



        Myself next to my work.



        Here's a hinged protection system I built for the front hose bib/valve. I always try to think about to guy that'll come behind me!



        Here's a hinged protection system from the main water line, valves, and back flow device.



        Here's a side view.

        I did all this work by myself, no 'mechanics' were on the site. Also, this is the only job I took my camera, so sorry I can't show you more.
        Proud To Be Union!!

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        • #19
          Re: Hey, Just Saying Hello

          [quote=Aaron91;78713]Right, I understand what your saying, I just wanted a rough answer, yes or no, not you have to show your work, and prove yourself, I know all that.

          Freddy, I can do both, new work and service. I have service down like cake work, but who wouldn't after a year or so? I can do new work, but I'd like to strengthen up on it.]

          aaron, it's great that you have the drive and confidence. but i doubt that you have "service down like cake work" there is a whole lot more to service than anyone can possibly learn in 1 year.

          your work does look clean and professional. the issue is that plumbing is a whole lot more than cpvc pipe.

          i'm sure that dog, or bob d can tell you that.

          it's great to learn, but you can't learn everything in a short period.
          you need to be exposed to more than 1 type of work. you need to be exposed to all phase of plumbing. just like a medical student does his residency in a hospital. he gets exposed to the different specialties in the medical field.

          working under a good journeyman that can mentor you will be a bonus.

          dog, is there room in the dog house for arron

          like i said prior, stick with the forum and the picture are a bonus.

          there should be a way to post with thumb nails and not as an attachment or other window josh can guide you through this much better.

          rick.
          Last edited by PLUMBER RICK; 05-13-2007, 07:18 PM.
          phoebe it is

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          • #20
            Re: Hey, Just Saying Hello

            lol you guys talk to me like I'm 5 or 6 years old. I guess you couldn't read or understand when I said I've only taken a camera onto one job.
            Proud To Be Union!!

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Hey, Just Saying Hello

              Getting a certificate (GED, etc.) means nothing without the knowledge.

              You're pissed because the opinions don't fit into your plan. But you are hearing from from real plumbers, foreman, and contractors who have worked in this trade for years. They are giving you advice based on real experience.

              If you feel that you are being treated like a kid, it is because your response shows that you are a kid.

              Give yourself some time to grow and learn.
              the dog

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              • #22
                Re: Hey, Just Saying Hello

                Aaron,

                I remember when I was 16 and knew everything. Now at 54 I realize I had a lot to learn at 16. Depending on the Code you are working under, pick up a current code book and a training manual and start reading them. As your skills increase so will your pay. A Union shop will give you an education but if there are no Union shops around try to find a PHCC Contractor who will send you to their school.

                As for your Backflow Certificate it has value and you should be proud to have it but I know very few who have ever fail a program. The first time you rebuild a 10-year old 12" RP by yourself you will show what type of a repair guy you really are.

                Mark
                "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Hey, Just Saying Hello

                  Aaron,
                  From what I've seen and read about you; you're on the right track. You're serious about plumbing and that's great but take things in stride. At this point in your life you don't need money(trust me), you need experience. Whether you know it or not, you're being watched when you stack wood, wash trucks or whatever your boss has you do. The work ethic you display doing those tasks will help your boss decide what do with you. And in a Mr. Miagi (karate kid) sort of way you are learning something. Maybe not about plumbing but you are learning. You're only 16. You'll have plenty of time later on to sweat pipe and turn wrenches. Get the field time of Mark, Rick, Dog and everyone else that I missed and you'll set your own price and you'll get it. Last piece of advice is "no one ever got in trouble for keeping his mouth shut".
                  Buy cheap, buy twice.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Hey, Just Saying Hello

                    You're taking yourself too seriously brother , we're on your side .........and the way the industry is changing no-one has service down pat , it is a constant learning process , if you think you know everything you will get in deep at somepoint and it might not be pretty.......I have bein plumbing since 1983 , and I"m very good , but I never stop learning..........you won"t either.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Hey, Just Saying Hello

                      Aaron, this is all good advice here.

                      Dedicated Hard Work at the simple tasks gets noticed and rewarded by a good boss. Its not something you see much anymore in todays youth. Most people want to get paid as much as they can for as little work as possible. From what I have learned about the plumbing profession over the years, you're headed down a long road where the pay starts out small and grows quite nicely with experience.

                      Work Hard
                      Continue to Take Pride in Everything you do
                      Stay Humble
                      Be Agressive about Experience
                      Let your Work speak for you
                      Respect your Coworkers and those who have more experience than you
                      Treat Customers Fairly

                      and your headed down a great career path. You have some great role models here on the forum, make sure you listen to them.

                      Welcome to the forum,

                      Josh

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Hey, Just Saying Hello

                        I started in construction when I was 16 as well, and had tools and "Knew" a lot for my age, I knew book knowledge, (and there is nothing wrong with it),
                        I was not old enough to have much experience (just the truth),

                        on many things I at that age, ( I knew a better way to complete the job I was on, but I was not the one in charge, nore did I have the experience to Know at that time. now by hind site I understand),

                        NO one is putting you down, any of US who started out in our teens ran into many of the same feelings your experiencing now, your knowledgeable and have skills, and you want to learn and use them, and all us OLD fogies are holding you back, your out to conquer the wold, and no one is letting you,

                        When I was your age I thought I knew ever thing, and now sometimes I wonder if I know anything, (yes I would admit I still had things to learn at your age, and did believe it, but now I know it. there is so much out there to learn, to experience you will never know it all you can know some of it but not all of it and what you do know is subject to your experience).

                        I know your working with people who YOU "KNOW" you know more than they do, jsut a word of advice, discuss the knowledge in a polite and as a student, and to learn, (you may be surprised to jsut what he does and does not know).
                        BUT pay attention to the guy, he may not "know" as much, but if he has experience, learn from that experience.

                        When you learn something you can learn a lot in a hurry about theory, and the basic how to's, but many times it will take years to learn the subtle little things that make one really good at the job,

                        (on the farm here we do mechanical work, I over hauled my first engine when I was about 20, I had disassembled a lot of small motors and put back together as a kid, I read the books, bought tools, and did what I read, I though I was mechanic after that, now many years later, and over 30+ engines I have discovered I am jsut beginning to learn the art of rebuilding engines. (by the way that first engine is still in service).

                        Doing the basic work is the easy part and the mundane,
                        It is the small details that set one apart from the crowd, and I don't care if it plumbing or mechanics, cabinet making, electrical, butchering, farming or what ever it is,

                        EXPERIENCE IS NEEDED TO BE TRULY A GREAT CRAFTSMAN.

                        some days I know you think you are spinning your wheels, but it does take time.

                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                        BUT THIS IS A FACT.
                        your going to fight this being a YOUTH or YOUNG, BUSINESS until your into your mid to late 20's
                        It is not that you know or don't know your trade, it is that your young.
                        All a sudden when you are nearing the 30 year old mark you will look around and start to notice your accepted in to the ADULT WORLD,
                        IT IS JUST PEOPLES NATURE,
                        IT IS NOT YOU,

                        I am 90+% semi retired now from construction, (after a major knee injury), and farm now for the most part,(you don't have to kneel much in farming).

                        but jsut for an example I went to the neighbors last year to buy a new bull, and this neighbor is a young man about 22 years of age, (took over his uncles ranch), any way a person comes into the drive that needed access to his land, the guy gets out of his truck and comes and starts to talk to me, not the owner, why I was the older person there.

                        on the youth and being young, believe me you will get over it, (at your view point in life it will seem like it is never going to end, but from my view point it was way to fast).

                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                        when I started out I was making 1.65 an hour, I though I was rich, I bought my own tools, and soon had a pickup,

                        you can take or leave this next statement,

                        but in my opinion,
                        I would never pay a young buck starting out, big dollars, (It is not because I am cheap but for his own good).
                        whether he had his own tools or not, your jsut starting into the work force, and if you struggle a little, have to make decisions on your spending, not having money to burn, it will be a very good foundation builder, for your life.

                        There will be times when things are good and times when things are bad, and if you have the self discipline to control your desires and determine your needs, you will get thought he poor times much easier than someone who has had it handed to them on a silver platter, and did not have to make decisions that were hard.

                        Some one in your situation, may have a hard time adjusting, when your really have to go out on your own, and Momma and Pap pa are not there paying the rent, and the utilities, and buying the groceries.

                        It will be hard when all a at once you find that special gal, and you decide you want to spend your life together, and you make the decision to have a family, and then all a once every thing from your pay check is needed for necessities, and the tools and fun department is reduced down to nothing.

                        It will be hard on you your wife your family and your marriage and your life.

                        I see young people all the time that had it so easy when they were teens and when they get to adult hood responsibilities they crash and burn as they have never learned money management,
                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                        NO one is jumping on you, and we do understand, we remember,

                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                        and as Red Green would say
                        "I’m pulling for you. We’re all in this together.”
                        also,
                        "If women don't find you handsum, they shudd at least find you handy!"
                        Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                        "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
                        attributed to Samuel Johnson
                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                        PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Hey, Just Saying Hello

                          Good luck, but like they said be careful with the attitude. Of course the attitude could be from lack of english prose. Or that could be just not may years of proper english/literature education. They make you take it and the whole time you're wondering why you need to know that stuff! Well here it is!

                          The age thing don't take it personally, in my company I can't hire anyone under 18 because of equipment restrictions. Especially they can't drive one of the trucks (pickups) or operate a walk behind Bobcat loader. Insurance won't allow it.

                          Like the others said, do your time, learn all you can, when you've learned it all, dig deeper you're never really done! In time you'll be right where you want to be.

                          Also, never assume that your customer knows nothing about what you're doing (I've had 2 that made that mistake), and remember that the customer signs the checks.


                          Clato

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Hey, Just Saying Hello

                            wow kid i have been on this board for 3-4 years now and i have to say i have never seen a new member make such a large impact as you have, this is unless they bashed our beloved ridgid tools .

                            you will be fine but you don't have service down pat, if you do just wait till you get into d.c. or baltimore with 100+ year old building in them, what do you know about cast iron? copper? you do know there is L and M right? what about tearicoti drain pipe or that dang paper tar type of drain pipe? am i am not even a plumber but this is stuff i have ran into and before you think i don't know what i am talking about just remember this is is something that come with age, it is called ........... experience

                            i was a wood butcher for many years and i got lucky. i owned a medium company with about 25 employees, and i would never start a 16 year old at 15 an hour but if they earned it they got it, no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

                            you have no real work history to go by, there for you have no real refreces to call other then the shop you are at now, how long have you been at this shop? less then a year? do you get the point i am making? it has nothing to do with who you are it has more to do with what you are...... a teenager

                            to use your words, you quit school because you didn't like the stereo type, "pot smoker inmaturity image" now tell me me why i would hire you? you quit school, you don't have a DL you don't have much expereice and now you want to quit the company you work now................ aaron, do you get the point i am trying to make here to you? i am not belittleing you it is just the way i(a former employer) see it
                            Last edited by oldslowchevy; 05-14-2007, 10:56 AM. Reason: i with all my years of wisdom,.......... made a mistake
                            9/11/01, never forget.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Hey, Just Saying Hello

                              BHD,

                              WOW, that was an excellent post. You should be a writer. I couldn't have said it better myself.

                              It's so hard not to sound condescending to a 16 year old ears.

                              AAron my entire education was in Maryland public schools. I did get my diploma but just barely. I really can't blame you for dropping out, the system currently is in horrible shape. The diploma didn't really "open" any doors for me but I wished I had focused on my math skills. If you want to be a good plumber you will need to use and understand math. I had a poor teacher and that translates into a poor student. Plus I sat behind Maryanne Marino and I couldn't focus on anything else but her sweet perfumed hair. Well almost 30 years have passed and I'm still not convinced I want to be a plumber. I finally had to give up on my dream of being a ballet dancer it just wasn't paying as much as plumbing which BTW has been very good to me. (I know I may not look it but I'm very light on my feet) So get your GED if you want. Focus on math and take Utah's advice and pick up a code book. Get one that has commentary explaining each code. Huge help for me.

                              And thanks for showing up. These west coast plumbers have dominated this forum long enough.

                              ~Bill

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Hey, Just Saying Hello

                                Tis true that the math skills you think you will never need, you will end up needing at some time or another. Aaron i too started at the tender age of 14 (though I stayed in high school) and I too thought once i had a couple of tool bags full, the plumbing world was my oyster. You need to take plumbing one step at a time, and make sure to understand every aspect of what you're learning, dont try to learn everything so fast that you miss important stuff. I know what its like for everyone to look down their nose at you because of your age, but being the underdog can be great, especially when you do things that no one thought a young buck could be capable of doing. i'm still pretty young myself, and running my own business i encounter skepticism about my abilities as a contractor all the time, but its twice as rewarding when you prove everyone wrong.
                                West Trail Mechanical Ltd
                                Service. Commitment. Expertise.

                                www.westtrailmechanical.ca

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