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  • Pumped flowrates.

    Hi everyone.
    Here's the scenario. Pumped water from a well which is providing poor flowrates.
    Whats the best option.?
    1- Upgrade the pump
    2- Upgrade the pipesizing
    3- Fit an accumulator

    The pump set already has an accumulator fitted at the well head but was wondering if fitting an extra one closer to point of use would help boost the flowrates. (space permitting).
    I believe the patent for these systems is American held.

  • #2
    Re: Pumped flowrates.

    how deep is well?
    how far away is well?
    What are you using for a pump?
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    • #3
      Re: Pumped flowrates.

      First of all what is the capacity of the well?

      (usually when the well is drilled they do a test and determine the capacity of the well, on how much it will produce (gallons a minute, state side), it will produce a minute,
      There is also the draw down, in how far the water level drops in the well when it is pumping, which is usually figured into the capacity, but some wells are set very deep in the aquifer and may have a very high draw down and still have a good capacity, depending on the screen in the casing of the well and so on, and the water bearing strata.

      so you need to first determine if the well can handle being pumped any more, or faster.

      In some areas a well may only produce a few gallons a min, (gallon is almost 4 liters), and then there are other that can produce in the hundreds of gallons a min.
      and if you over pump the well you will pump air, or you will draw the well down faster than it can fill.
      So your pump needs to be with in the capacity of the wells production,

      http://www.watersystemscouncil.org/V...SC_INST_20.pdf

      If your in danger of pumping the well dry or low, a low water cut off can be used to protect the pump,
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


      uslay the pump capacity is in the pump it self, you get resistance in the pipe, and yes it need to be capable of handing the GPM or the flow rate of the pump, usually the on the pump do not down size the pipe to what the pump has fittings for, and you will be OK under most situations.

      Now if your pushing your water a long distance up sizing pipe will increase flow, and reduce resistance.
      One should be able to test/measure that by both pressure and flow rate at the well head and where the end use is.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      I am not exactly sure of your term accumulator is , my guess is your referring to a pressure tank, or a tank that allows the system to have pressure and a reserve of water with out the pump running continuously, partly filled with air.

      The additional pressure tanks will not give you any more pump capacity, it may give you more gallons a min or more for for a period of time,

      example: I have windmill, (actually two windmills) but they have small cylinders (pumps) on the bottom of the pipe in the well that will pump about 3 gallons a min, in a good wind, but the house or farm many times needs more than that a minute, the pump can not handle that flow rate with out a bigger windmill, to power it, and beside who knows when the wind is going to blow any way,
      so the well pumps into a 9000 gallon tank, and out of the 9000 gallon tank we take water for the farm, I can use a 2" powered pump or 200 gallons or more a min out of the tank, easily if need to be, I am limited by the size of pipe I have on the tank and the amount of water in the tank.
      So yes it will help a if properly size and if the need or flow of water is not continuous and properly sized to the surge needs as it acts as a supply tank for the well,


      http://www.watersystemscouncil.org/V...Tank_FINAL.pdf
      Last edited by BHD; 05-19-2007, 04:19 PM.
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      attributed to Samuel Johnson
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      • #4
        Re: Pumped flowrates.

        Are you using a jet pump(pump on the ground and visible) or are you using a submersible pump(no visible pump, just some wires that go into the top of the casing). You might need to "re-develop" the well. Talk to a local driller and he can point you in the right direction.
        Buy cheap, buy twice.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Pumped flowrates.

          Apologies for the delay in replying. The pump isa DAB Jet 62M pump.
          http://www.dabpumps.com/wps/wcm/connect/resources/file/ebff3a0e59a97cb/JET%20-%20JETINOX%20-%20JETCOM.pdf?MOD=AJPERES
          Hope the link works.
          The suction delivery is 262 feet long. 32mm MDPE (1" or there abouts)
          The well is a further 20 feet deep.
          The flow rate at the bathtap and kitchen tap are both 11 litres/min.
          Many thanks.
          Last edited by Norplumb; 05-23-2007, 05:53 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Pumped flowrates.

            Originally posted by Norplumb View Post
            Apologies for the delay in replying. The pump isa DAB Jet 62M pump.
            http://www.dabpumps.com/wps/wcm/connect/resources/file/ebff3a0e59a97cb/JET%20-%20JETINOX%20-%20JETCOM.pdf?MOD=AJPERES
            Hope the link works.
            The suction delivery is 262 feet long. 32mm MDPE (1" or there abouts)
            The well is a further 20 feet deep.
            The flow rate at the bathtap and kitchen tap are both 11 litres/min.
            Many thanks.
            The most important piece of the puzzle is what the well can actually produce. That info is normally obtained when the well is drilled. It isn't out of the ordinary for the info to be lost in antiquity. In the use you can sometimes find it in bank records as the banks like to require a flow test before signing off on a loan for the property.

            I looked at you flow charts briefly but my mind isn't working in metric at the moment. How many letres in a gallon? Your 262 feet info are you adding the vertical drop to the the distance from the house to the well? What is the depth of the well? Is the pump in a similar plane to the top of the well or is it up higher?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Pumped flowrates.

              The 11L/min is about 2 IMP gallons.
              The 262 feet runs horizontally to the pump suction inlet.
              The well is 20 feet deep vertically.
              My main concern at the moment is the length of this suction run as it seems excessive to me.
              I have contacted Grundfos to find out their views also.
              Many Thanks.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Pumped flowrates.

                The length of the horizontal run isn't that much of an issue.

                20 feet is a pretty shallow well you may not be able to pull water out of it much faster. You need to get an idea of how much water your well can provide. What style of well is this. How large in diameter? Can you look down into it. The most accurate way to find out the wells capacity would be to put a oversized test pump in place and check at what rate the well refreshes at(I use a 3HP 10 gallon a minute submersible)

                Who installed the pump and pressure tank? have you called them yet?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Pumped flowrates.

                  Page 8 and 9 on this link gives information on the suction line to the pump.
                  http://www.goulds.com/pdf/bpump.pdf
                  According to this the suction length is critical.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Pumped flowrates.

                    I'm not sure what you are trying to get or argue. Yes the pump will have to pump harder to make up for the friction loss. In your case the pipe run is plastic. Plastic causes significantly less friction loss then the steel pipe covered in the chart.

                    With your current set up there is no way you are going to get a better flow rate. The pipe size is not the limiting factor. 1inch is sufficient for flow rates up to 18 gallons a minute. The answer is a different pump. However if your well does not produce enough water to support a larger pump it is a wasted effort.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Pumped flowrates.

                      Their is a poor flowrate to the property.
                      Their is 80M (262 feet) of 32mm mdpe plastic piping which a previous installer fitted to the suction side of the pump.
                      You think this horizontal run of 80M piping is not much of an issue but according to the information in the link it is a big issue.
                      I was always led to believe short suction runs to well pumps are important.
                      I am merely trying to determine if the installers have made an error in the length and size of this suction run.
                      Last edited by Norplumb; 05-27-2007, 04:28 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Pumped flowrates.

                        The 262 is a long run for a jet pump. It does not mean the installers made an error. The critical piece of date you are missing is how much the well can produce. If the well can only produce 2 gallons a minute and the pump pulling across 262 can still make 2 gallons a minute the system is working as designed within the limitations of the well.

                        The vertical distance is a much more important factor for a pump.

                        The question is what do you want to do?

                        You already have a well 262 feet from the property. It is where it is. The line going to the well is a 1 inch line. considering the distance I wouldn't want to replace it if I didn't have to it's already there. If you can find out how much water it can produce you can look into viable options to take advantage of its capacity.

                        A submersible pump that would be better suited to produce a better flow rate but it would require a 2 feet trench to run the wire(far easier then a 6 foot trench which would be required for a larger line or a second line for a deep well jet)

                        If the well can only produce 2 gallons a minute anything you change on the existing set up is going to change that. You will just add the problems of out-pumping the well and pulling air in the line.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Pumped flowrates.

                          The critical piece of date you are missing is how much the well can produce

                          The well is dug and lined. Probably has a few thousand gallons of storage.
                          So how much the spring will produce is not an issue as I already have storage.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Pumped flowrates.

                            Originally posted by Norplumb View Post
                            The critical piece of date you are missing is how much the well can produce

                            The well is dug and lined. Probably has a few thousand gallons of storage.
                            So how much the spring will produce is not an issue as I already have storage.
                            If you believe you can not exhaust the well then I would look into sizing a submersible pump that would produce the flow rates you would like to see.

                            I've dealt with many people who were confident they could use a dug well for all their watering needs. After showing them a flow test they were much more willing to accept professional advice. If you have no intention of using the well for outside watering then it might work for you.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Pumped flowrates.

                              Thanks for the reply. I takle your points on board.

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