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  • 150ft commode to septic run?

    Hello all, I have a commode in a new building 150ft from a septic. I have maybe 2 ft drop over this distance. How can I make it work?

    Thanks!

    Randy

  • #2
    Re: 150ft commode to septic run?

    You would need to pump it.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: 150ft commode to septic run?

      Originally posted by rlphoto View Post
      Hello all, I have a commode in a new building 150ft from a septic. I have maybe 2 ft drop over this distance. How can I make it work?

      Thanks!

      Randy
      We need more information before we can answer your question. Is you 2-feet of fall a ground surface measurement or is it from the invert of your waste line to the invert of the inlet to the septic? If it is the later use 4" pipe graded at one percent with approval of your Jurisdiction.

      Mark
      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: 150ft commode to septic run?

        Originally posted by rlphoto View Post
        Hello all, I have a commode in a new building 150ft from a septic. I have maybe 2 ft drop over this distance. How can I make it work?

        Thanks!

        Randy
        randy, the normal industry standard is 1/4'' per foot fall, (2% grade).

        this is equal to 2.5'' every 10'. or 25'' per 100'. at 150' you would need 37.5'' of fall to be legal.

        as mark said 1% or 1/8'' per foot is also allowed with the approval of the inspector, on 4'' pipe. problem is it's almost impossible to do as a home owner especially on plastic pipe. a transit or laser is usually required to install.


        the real issue is not the grade or fall. it's the distance you are planning to install a toilet away from it's final disposal site.

        i would think you would have a sink there too

        i can tell you from real life experience and real job calls, that a 150' on a low flow toilet 1.6gpf, without other fixtures, such as shower, laundry, will not work. 1.6 gallons will not carry the waste all the way to the septic. it doesn't matter if it's 1/4'' or 1/8''. the waste will settle and start to stack up. every flush will just add to the waste build up. now if you have other fixtures, not just a bathroom sink, then the other clean water flow will help wash carry the waste to its final resting place

        for all of you that don't do service and drain cleaning, this is a good lesson.

        i have 2 newer big condo buildings i work on in beverly hills. the powder room toilets are separated from the rest of the main by anywhere from 45' to 80'. all that is on it is 4- 1.6gpf toilets and 4 bathroom sinks. 1 on each floor of a 4 story building. 1 building is a 45' run and the other is 80'. all the new piping is exposed in a sub-terrainian garage. all the piping is no hub pipe that is new. all the piping is properly graded at 1/4'' and i even camered the line to look for any construction debris. even hydro jetted the lines to clean the stoppage.

        the problem is that since the toilets are used by women and men. the paper that is used by women on every flush, just builds up even on a non waste flush. of course waste will just add to the problem even faster.

        the solution was to have them run the sink while using the toilet to keep the line moving. not exactly a water saver, but a plumber saver

        if anyone knows where you can find 4 bone colored matching 1 pc. 3.5gpf toilets, i'm sure the building will be interested to purchase them.

        there is no other fixtures to divert into the line as these powder room are too far from the rest of the waste system.

        so that is my first hand knowledge.

        granted pvc or abs piping is slicker, but you can't fool plain old physics and gravity.

        rick.
        phoebe it is

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: 150ft commode to septic run?

          I just had a 30x70 Morton pole building built with a slab floor for my small business, and am thinking an outdoor sewage pump for my commode. The septic is 150ft away. I was wondering if I need to go with a bit more expensive grinder pump, or just the standard sewer pump that they say will pass 2 inch round solids, will be enough. There will be some women and children using the bathroom, and although I will post a sign about not flushing feminine products, and kids not throwing stuff in the toilet, people don't always read.

          As far as installing a new septic that is pretty much out. Same issues here with the sand mound stuff. I am lucky as there is 2 on my property already. To bad the closest one is 150ft.

          I never thought of the 2" line clogging. Maybe I should get a grinder pump to slurry the waste, and stay away from water saver commodes. I could also go to 3 or 4 inch pipe?

          On another note I will have (some) slope from the commode to the septic. With a hand held site level I estimate 2 ft maybe.I haven't calculated exactly much yet, I am getting a builders level when I rent the ditchwitch Tuesday.

          Say I have the 1/8-3/16 ft slope, Can I expect it to run 150ft?

          This commode might be used 5 times a day max.

          I am astounded by the response to my original question. Thank you all so much.

          I will be out the rest of the day riding my motocycle but will return to the forum tonight.

          Randy

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: 150ft commode to septic run?

            a grinder pump will allow you to discharge through smaller pipe.

            a normal 2'' sewage ejector (zoller m267) will work just fine. this will pump up to a total head of 23' + or -

            not sure if you want to invest in a grinder pump$$, probably good for a yatch, but the zoller m267 is pretty much an industry standard.

            now we know the rest of the story

            rick.

            make sure you install a good check valve on the pump discharge line and a ball valve so you can service the pump and check valve. also the 3/16'' hole on the discharge line is very important. follow the instructions carefully. 2'' abs or pvc is fine. that's the purpose of a pump. the line will not plug.

            originally the question was geared towards a gravity system.
            Last edited by PLUMBER RICK; 07-01-2007, 01:26 PM. Reason: added information.
            phoebe it is

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: 150ft commode to septic run?

              Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
              now we know the rest of the story

              rick.

              make sure you install a good check valve on the pump discharge line and a ball valve so you can service the pump and check valve. also the 3/16'' hole on the discharge line is very important. follow the instructions carefully. 2'' abs or pvc is fine. that's the purpose of a pump. the line will not plug.

              originally the question was geared towards a gravity system.

              Good call Mr "Harvey"

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: 150ft commode to septic run?

                Here is a Idea,
                You could put in a small pre-septic/holding tank, just out side of the building, (a single chamber unit), actually more of a solids catcher, and then run the effluent into the other septic system 150' way, that way nearly 100% of the solids would be removed before the line, thus eliminating the soils problem and by using the the other septic system you would not need additional chambers that would normally be required for a septic system, or another drain field.

                http://ohioline.osu.edu/aex-fact/0740.html
                by the above information sheet if a dwelling is occupied by one person a 500 gallon tank would only need to be pumped every 5.8 years, (you would have to determine the size as to the employees or people working in the building but since it is not a residence or occupied continuously, I would guess your max times between pumping would or could be longer than the chart on the url, (as it is not the septic tank, I would not think you would have to meet any minimal size as only to the time between pumpings),

                my guess is your on a schedule on pumping your regular tanks and I would size the holding tank to that frequency of pumping schedules,

                (even if you chose to use a pump, a secondary (clear water) chamber would nearly assure a trouble free operation, not having to pump solids and trash),

                regardless put a couple of two way clean outs in the line to the main septic tank,
                Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
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                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: 150ft commode to septic run?

                  You guys are a major help! Nothing like having the advice of 3 professional plumbers on a Sunday afternoon! Anyway reading your posts it sounds like it is just too long a run to just stick a pump in the ground and forget about it. The holding tank sounds pretty much like a necessity. That would be the best I think. The problem is I could sneak a pump by the local officials, but not a 500 gallon tank. The other thing is the septic drain field has been covered by a few feet of fill, and not used for 25 years, and I am not sure of its ability to discharge much water. I thought once I got it hooked up and running I could upgrade it later once it is in use again. At this time they would want to condemn it since it is out of use.

                  I am starting to think about a composting unit. That is what my wife wants to do. She is not squeamish about to much of anything, and would take care of it. Any tips here?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: 150ft commode to septic run?

                    Hello again, well a year and a half later I am finally getting to it. I ditch witched yesterday and found out I have a total slope of about 6 inches over 140 ft. Not good.

                    Speaking of pumping commode waste, just to make sure I get it, a 4/10 hp sewage pump with a 2" discharge on a 2" line would still clog, with toilet solids settling out of it on the way to the septic, right? I could hold the pipe fairly level with my builders level anyway.

                    A grinder pump would not work either for the same reason right? Got to do the holding tank thing probably..

                    Now lets talk gray water. If I don't mess with the commode and just pipe sink water (this is a small hair salon) All this slope thing doesn't make any difference right? We will trap most of the hair at the sink, not saying some wont get by. Is a sewage pump with the 2" line still best? If I lay the line with no dips that should minimize particle deposits building up? What about laying the PVC, Other than good cleaning and gluing, any tips there? also what about cleanouts?

                    Thanks for any help I can get, I need to fill it in tomorrow.

                    Randy

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: 150ft commode to septic run?

                      A decent grinder pump will move that waste to the septic tank no problem. My concern would be the freezing.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: 150ft commode to septic run?

                        as an engineer who does this EVERYDAY i am with Plumberscrack 110%. A grinder will be fine then grade the pipe to whatever it is. Now is your existing system sized to handle this flow? where are you tying in with the existing system? i would drop right into your distribution box or junction bow with either 1 1/2" or 2" pipe and a downward facing elbow or 45 to keep disruption down.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: 150ft commode to septic run?

                          Wow, what fast response! Thanks!

                          The building is a garage now, but it will be a small beauty salon. The existing septic is not used as of now and hasn't been for 20 years. All I want it to do now is handle some sink water. BUT, since I am going through all the trouble to lay lines to it, I want to prepare for the future as I would like to install a flush toilet later down the road. SO, I want to get the lines in place for a toilet. I really cant afford a grinder pump or a new bathroom at this time, but I can afford the lines. Maybe in a few years or so for the grinder and bathroom.. We have another toilet off premises was are using for now. But it is a pain. If I can get the septic in use again somewhat, I can probably get an upgrade permit later and fix it up some, and not have to put in ax expensive sand mound.

                          What I need to know now is what lines do I need to lay for a later grinder pump? And... Since I only need to pump water now, should I go ahead and install the 2" pvc I was going to install and the sewage pump, (I found a new little giant 509560) for less than $100, And use that till I can get the grinder and new bathroom together? I just got to get rid of this sink water so we can open up and make some money.

                          As far as discharge, I am dumping right into the septic tank itself.

                          I am sincerely thankful for your help!

                          Randy

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: 150ft commode to septic run?

                            Somehow I doubt there are any permits for this plumbing plan.
                            Water Heater Reviews & Water Heater Information

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                            • #15
                              Re: 150ft commode to septic run?

                              I'm just wondering what might happen to a septic system that hasn't been used in 20 years

                              anyone know?

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