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  • Tankless Heater Issues

    here is a prime example why i don't care for all the tankless water heater installations that are being done by unqualified plumbers. the sad part is this was also inspected by the local cities department of building and safety and it passed

    the issues that the owner is experiencing is lack of hot water temperature and volume. along with a long wait for the hot water.

    a quick peek at the tankless installation shows a 225,000 btu heater connected to the gas main with a 1/2'' x 3' flex connector rated for 125,000 btu's. the gas main feeding the heater is 1'' and the heater has a 3/4'' gas stub. the flex is 1/2''.


    the water feed is 1'' and the heater is 3/4'' rated for max. 9.6gpm.
    there are no 3 way valves for servicing and bypassing for cleaning / de-liming.

    the 12 gallon storage tank is not properly strapped for seismic movement/ earthquake. the pressure relief valve is not piped and there is no drain or pump in the basement. the tank is also missing shut off valves.

    the circulating pump is not piped properly. the circ system should not go to the tankless, but rather to the 12 gallon electric storage heater. also it's plugged into an outlet running 24 hours a day. although it's a 3/4'' pump, it's actually fed from a 1/2'' soft copper line.

    these are just a handful of the issues.

    no cheating mark and robert as i have already filled you in

    rick.
    Attached Files
    phoebe it is

  • #2
    Re: Tankless Heater Issues

    handyman special

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Tankless Heater Issues

      Ugly stuff indeed.

      Mark
      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Tankless Heater Issues

        The one big pain in da keyster about those new tankless installs is the fact that you're usually replacing an existing tank with a 1/2" gas line, unless it's a single bath model (around 4 gpm or less usually) so you wind up cutting into the line & threading for a new 3/4" tee.
        The fella that installed it apparently decided to avoid that lil' detail to save time/labor.
        As for a recirc line straight into the tankless...the obvious...it'll be working as often or more often than the tank did, but consume more gas in the process.
        Kinda like parking your car and letting the engine run all night.
        Also...I couldn't tell, is the tank set up before or after the tankless?
        Last edited by DuckButter; 07-26-2007, 09:36 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Tankless Heater Issues

          Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
          The one big pain in da keyster about those new tankless installs is the fact that you're usually replacing an existing tank with a 1/2" gas line, unless it's a single bath model (around 4 gpm or less usually) so you wind up cutting into the line & threading for a new 3/4" tee.
          The fella that installed it apparently decided to avoid that lil' detail to save time/labor.
          As for a recirc line straight into the tankless...the obvious...it'll be working as often or more often than the tank did, but consume more gas in the process.
          Kinda like parking your car and letting the engine run all night.
          Also...I couldn't tell, is the tank set up before or after the tankless?
          looks like the tank was set up when the system was installed, they have the old stand there from the old water heater.
          sigpic

          Robert

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Tankless Heater Issues

            doesn't anyone sleep joey didn't know i was up late with you guys and then had to post, with photos. had a late night phone call with some plumbers

            there is actually a 1'' gas line up to the heater, then reduced to the 1/2'' flex.

            the 12 gallon tank is hooked up approx. 20' after the outlet of the heater.

            the circ. line returns to the cold inlet of the heater.

            i will go there and address a few items and see what i get. not even sure if the electric tank is operating. it's set for 125, but i need to put an amp meter on the elements to see if it's drawing current.

            rick.
            phoebe it is

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Tankless Heater Issues

              Originally posted by westcoastplumber View Post
              looks like the tank was set up when the system was installed, they have the old stand there from the old water heater.
              Yer too funny...I meant physically, not chronologically!

              Rick, I assume you meant the recirc is tied into the tankless..a BIG no-no...should be returning to the cold inlet on the storage tank, provided the tank even works.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Tankless Heater Issues

                I've seen worse....just can't remember when

                So where's the picture showing all the issues corrected?

                Or did you just walk away shaking your head in disgust?

                Why the lack of volume?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Tankless Heater Issues

                  Rick,

                  I am glad to here you have prospered in you service plumbing buis.

                  Most people need to get the family showered and off to their daily activities before having a plumber at the door.

                  So yeah stay up late,sleep till the suns nice and high,get on the road after morning traffic dies down.

                  Royalty would be envious.

                  I see you guys in the supply house at 9:30 getting your first cup of coffee when I'm in there picking up material shorts from the first pass of the day.

                  You've earned it

                  Adam

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Tankless Heater Issues

                    I don't know Adam I was up late on the phone talking to Rick last night and then left the house before 6 AM this morning for a meeting in San Diego. Now my family wants to go to the show tonight and I may miss out on our Chat. Life is tough for most people some times (except for Rick).

                    Mark
                    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Tankless Heater Issues

                      Mark,
                      I have seen your work load lately,Take care of yourself,don't want to see you slide health wise.

                      As for Rick,he actually is a hustler that CAN dig

                      Spent some time hanging out down south on Robert's job while he was doing demo for one of his remodels.Had to move Quick or I would've ended up in the trash pile.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Tankless Heater Issues

                        Originally posted by plumberscrack View Post
                        I've seen worse....just can't remember when

                        So where's the picture showing all the issues corrected?

                        Or did you just walk away shaking your head in disgust?

                        Why the lack of volume?

                        i didn't have time to fix it. i was just there to survey the issues. i did purchase a real 3/4'' x 2' flex line that is rated for 275,000 btu's. i have the 3 way valves in stock in both ips, propress and cxc. csst pipe/ tract, gastite, wardflex, is not approved in beverly hills yet.

                        the lack of volume is directly related to the lack of hot water produced. unlike a tank heater that will flow as fast as the water can enter and exit. a tankless will only flow the volume that can be heated to the set temperature. since the gas line is undersized, the output will suffer. also the tempress valve in the master has a screen built into the seats. i hate the tempress valves. they are junk that alot of companies build their trim around. i will sch the repairs next week. the owner has owned the home 2 years and has lived in it for 1 year. i week is acceptable.

                        thanks for all the input from you guys. glad to see you were just as shocked. unfortunately i see more bad than good on these heaters.

                        adam, we can all spend a day with each other and get a good cross training in our specialties. with mark we can take a road trip to vegas. not sure what we will learn, but we will have fun

                        rick.
                        phoebe it is

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Tankless Heater Issues

                          I have installed about 10 tankless heaters.

                          mostly installing for other contractors per their supply sizing and choice of heater.

                          The big Rinnias are getting the job done,wether its 2 and a holding tank for a big custom.Or 1 for a single bath home.I haven't found their ability line yet.I cannot trust manufactures specs.I mean,for a while there was a manufacturer that was putting out high efficiency 100 gallon direct vent water heaters that could not put out more hot water than a 50 gal,well close.Anyway they cost a lot of people a lot of money to swap back to standard.

                          Takagi,so-so.Bosch,is like a gas burning CHRONOMITE

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Tankless Heater Issues

                            Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                            i didn't have time to fix it. i was just there to survey the issues. i did purchase a real 3/4'' x 2' flex line that is rated for 275,000 btu's. i have the 3 way valves in stock in both ips, propress and cxc. csst pipe/ tract, gastite, wardflex, is not approved in beverly hills yet.
                            Though I'm sure you already know this..Wardflex is awful.
                            Unlike tracpipe or gastite, it's annealed so it's more flexible..a "selling feature" to plumbers, in theory.

                            I've seen it leak deep inside a chase after it had been pulled over a nail the wasn't completely cut through in a hole on a plate.
                            Also seen it scrape on the sides of holes and caused a leak so slow we almost missed it.
                            Then there's the fittings on wardflex...they use a graphite gasket that will perforate if you have the slightest burr on your cut, the leaks don't show up with regular leak detector because they leak inside the slip nut, tracpipe and gastite are metal to metal.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Tankless Heater Issues

                              Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
                              Bosch,is like a gas burning CHRONOMITE
                              OMG!....he used the 'C' word!

                              Comment

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