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  • #76
    Training and lack of

    [qu












    1/8 per ft they can drainte=ToUtahNow;96114]Come on guys give Sylvan a break. The 56 story building was likely only an office building so there were only 112 bathrooms, 56 drinking fountains

    ( 56 DF = 28 FU = lets do it the hard way Lets think like a semi skilled plumber, Drinking fountain = 1/2 FU and we read a code that says 11/2" pipe can carry 4 FU on the stack (vertical) so that = 8 drinking fountains.

    So we deduct 8 from the 56 = now on the 48th fl

    AFTER we install 8 DF on the 11/2 we are now on the 48th floor Now we increase the pipe to 2" which we find can convey on a 2" = 8 FU so we now are able to go another 8 floors down so we are on the 40th fl

    Now we can go to 21/2 piping Galv or copper OR JUST run one 3" for the 56 stories and say forget doing it mathematically

    You see Mark it is not as horrendous as you make it out to be. Possibly you may need 3 or 4 men to set a 3" no hub pipe BUT get away from plastic and build yourself up you to can be a high rise star.




    )
    , 56 janitor closets, 168 floor drains ( Floor drains NOT required if you have a floor mounted urinal Read the fine print)) a couple of dozen roof drains and all of the stuff to make the fore mentioned stuff work. <<<< Misconception time

    Wouldnt the amount of the roof drains depend on the size of the roof area/pitch and SIZE of the leader line?)
    Mark please DON'T ASSUME you look silly,

    Roof drainage is based on sq feet and pitch for example IF one had a pitch of 1/8 per ft the storm area that could be drained on an 8" pipe would be 9,300 BUT if one used tapered insulation and made a uniform pitch of 1/2 per ft now the same 8" line could be used for 18,400 ft

    Did you notice it doubled the area?

    How hard is it really to install 8" no hub in a wet column or even 4 or 5 wet columns? through pre-cast openings?

    Then all these storm leaders go to a STORM TRAP only one trap needed and no FAI

    So your saying a Couple of DOZEN roof drains without knowing the SQ footage or pitch (not very professional guessing) so lets take SEVERAL dozen SEVERAL = 2 dozen to keep it a low several.

    So we will say 24 JR Smith 1010 12" diameter or is that to heavy for two men to set vertically?

    So lets pick a JR Smith 1010 10" diameter @ a 1/2 pitch that is 33,000 SQ per DRAIN and you said a COUPLE OF DOZEN so to keep it low we will go 24 drains

    24 drains capable of handing 33,000 SQ of roof area = 792,000 SQ of roof area.

    Mark you must do a HELL OF A LOT of foot ball field size roof drainage systems OR you have no idea what your talking about when it comes to storm water drainage

    Did you ever hear of "controlled drainage Or
    Siphonic - roof- drainage systems,? MUCH,MUCH,MUCH smaller piping required with NO PITCH AT ALL for the piping amazing designs BUT it would be WAY,WAY, WAY, WAY to complicated to explain


    Not bad for two guys and a helper to complete in less than a year working 30-35 hours per week.
    I was told less then a year and WHO said there didn't work week ends for Double and tipple time STILL less money then hiring another employee) I just met one of the mechanics at a CEU required class

    Mark

    TOL: I wonder what size cast iron they had to hang at the bottom and how long that took?[/quote]

    MARK don't wonder as it shows incompetence

    Instead of wondering either contact Citi bank in Queens Or do like a real plumbing contrator would do.

    Mark seriously If you have any 4th or 5th year apprentices in your area ask them how they would size the storm and soil and waste lines.

    Normally by fixture units (7.48 gallons) or the use of interpolation where one can convert either sq ft to FU or visa versa and the out come would determine the ACTUAL pipe sizes you need, NOT "wonder" what size it is

    Mark I got an idea for you WHY NOT INSTALL 10" NO HUB or 18" Bell and spigot piping and this way no matter how many fixtures you attach to each stack you should be ok


    If you want use 10" piping for a leader (Vertical) and that will carry handle a roof area of 31,718 SQ FT times that by your FEW DOZEN and you should be in great shape.

    Or the 10 " line could be used up to 1,652 GPM

    I know I can still carry one length of 10" no hub by myself and and it is not that difficult for TWO men to hang 8" NH pipe once the clevis hangers are installed.

    Mark lets do your FEW DOZEN roof drains going into a 10" leader YOU MUST HAVE AMAZING structures in your neck of the woods OR do the plumbers in your area look at a roof and say "YUP WE GONNA NEED 182- 3" roof drains"?

    What code do you use that requires a FEW Dozen roof drains?


    The key to hanging horizontal is CLEVIS hangers not your typical band iron mentality.

    Two ladders one man on each with 6" or 8" NH HUB PIPE and then they loosen the rod on the clevis hanger OR use the new type that snap in BUT that is for small guys and women.

    Once the piping is in the clevis hanger each man puts the U in place and places a bolt in relaxes and then puts on the nut and continues.

    Mark are you in the roof drain business that you like to make a FEW DOZEN penetrations through the membrane and slab?

    Thank you Mark, seriously as I see the BIG difference of areas of the country where one looks at a roof and says golly we need a lots and lots of drains on this thang OR other parts of the world where a guy looks at the plans and says ok lets see the SQ footage /pitch and then decide what TYPE of roof drainage system is required by looking at the 10 year rain frequency.

    GREAT, list as I AM IMPRESSED

    Comment


    • #77
      Re: The &quot;Union&quot;

      Originally posted by plumberscrack View Post
      I find Sylvans' posts way less annoying when hes on my ignore list
      Good move "foreman" I had a foreman who was 23 years old BUT he became a Master plumber, goes to show you hard men are hard to keep down

      Comment


      • #78
        Re: The &quot;Union&quot;

        Originally posted by plumberscrack View Post
        I find Sylvans' posts way less annoying when hes on my ignore list
        Good move "foreman" I had a foreman who was 23 years old BUT he became a Master plumber, goes to show you good men are hard to keep down

        Comment


        • #79
          Re: The &quot;Union&quot;

          Sylvan,

          I'm sorry but if I really took you serious it would be laughable. Why on earth would I want to size your make-believe building to support your make-believe story? You are welcome to spin it anyway you want but I'm afraid you are becoming more and more transparent. I believe PC has the correct approach to deal with you and I will follow his lead.

          Mark
          "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

          I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

          Comment


          • #80
            Re: The &quot;Union&quot;

            Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
            Sylvan,

            I'm sorry but if I really took you serious it would be laughable. Why on earth would I want to size your make-believe building to support your make-believe story? You are welcome to spin it anyway you want but I'm afraid you are becoming more and more transparent. I believe PC has the correct approach to deal with you and I will follow his lead.

            Mark
            HOW many roof drains do you think the Twin Towers had and according to you it had to have a 36" diameter drains possibly 60 of them huh?

            FYI Even the Empire state building does NOT have a few dozen drains on the main roof

            One of the 30 story co ops I work in has 10 main roof drains all are 4" diameter and the bulk head roof has a 2" drain and one scupper.

            Comment


            • #81
              Re: The &quot;Union&quot;

              I'd have lost interest in this thread except for the fact that a majority of the bickering seems to touch on code, sizing and the mechanical probability that three guys could plumb a highrise in a year.
              Hopefully some mysterious force of nature suddenly curbs the personal jabs and this thread REALLY gets interesting.

              Comment


              • #82
                God Call Duck

                Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                I'd have lost interest in this thread except for the fact that a majority of the bickering seems to touch on code, sizing and the mechanical probability that three guys could plumb a highrise in a year.
                Hopefully some mysterious force of nature suddenly curbs the personal jabs and this thread REALLY gets interesting.

                GREAT IDEA
                Time to move on, By the way do you remember back when plumbers threaded pipe by hand or lead wiped and or caulked all the joints then and how the folks said impossible to pipe a house a day like they do on Long Island as they bend all the copper and swedge it for soldering no couplings?

                When NYC first tried No Hub CI in the 1970's I was in the union and I was to do one building doing bell and spigot caulked joints and they had these non union guys competing against us highly skilled journeymen and they were not even from this country.

                By the time my partner and I got to the first floor they had the 4" stack through the roof 6 stories in less then 7 hours.

                I said they can never do plumbing any faster then those guys until NYC allowed plastic for 3 stories or less residential and they had high school kids doing it during the summer.

                The trade is sure changing, threaded, to victraulic, then copper and now plastic sprinkler systems with flexible heads




                Comment


                • #83
                  Re: The &quot;Union&quot;

                  Originally posted by Sylvan Tieger View Post
                  M-16 is the weapon of the military now. I can assemble and dissamble the M-9, M-16, M-60, and M2HB blindfolded and all within required time limits.

                  So possibly you might be able to fix a Delta,,

                  About the 3 year KIDDIE Cruiser join by age 17 out before your 21 birthday and here I only made E 5 and your only made E -6 which I was offered if I extended

                  BUT I do not like to get hand outs working for the government as some folks have this need to be told what clothes to wear when and where to eat. Are you insinuating that the servicemembers that serve this country are mindless people that need a handout?

                  IF you removed the blind fold, that may be the problem as to WHY you cant do plumbing or drain cleaning and have to ask me, being sarcastic for the 3rd time I could never talk down to you after all I did finish first grade and know to ask the manufacturer Have you considered going to an NRA class and then ytou can clean all my fire arms as not everyone can do plumbing or drain cleaning and your such an expert at fire arms you could clean them for licensed gun smiths.

                  Can DO ??? The M- 1 still rocks


                  You say you wear a blind fold and can do guns EVER think of being a bank robber? you seem to have the qualifications and with the SEA BEE training you can bury the loot with your government issued shovel.

                  YOUR doing good lad keep up the CAN DO attitude and keep asking question as possibly you might learn huh

                  This is the best you can come up with? All these writing skills and all you can harp on me about is my ability to assemble/dissassemble weapons? So it took you 4 years to make E-5? Wow, that's very fast (sarcasm) but I made E-5 in 1yr and 10 months so you still don't impress me. All you have on me is age. That's not much in your case. You're old, worn out, full of misinformation and useless in my eyes and everyone elses. You sound like you have money and share it but one day it will run out and your "friends" will leave as the annoyance of your personality is no longer masked by your money and you will die alone; friendless and penniless. The sooner you come to grips with your inadequacy in life the sooner you can move on.
                  Buy cheap, buy twice.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Re: Thank you Josh

                    "steam fitters did the heating and fire suppression work."

                    Sylvan, I did not read your whole long post (you surpass even me in being long-winded), but this (your statement which I quote above)I doubt is completely true. Steamfitters would not be working on a sprinkler system, that is pure sprinkler fitter work. The only time I have ever seen someone other than a Sprinkle Fitter doing fire lines is when it was a plumber or fitter working out of the Sprinkler Fitters hall because they could not get enough sprinkler fitters to man the job. I saw this only once in 31 years. It's probably happened more than once but I've only seen it happen once. Knowing how protective the NYC locals are of their trade jurisdiction and also how 669, 662 and the other Road Sprinklerfitter locals guard their work I doubt anyone does any fire sprinkler work without them(and lives to tell about it).
                    "When we build let us think we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone. Let it be such work that our descendants will thank us for, and let us think, as we lay stone upon stone, that a time is to come when these stones will be held sacred because our hands have touched them, and that men will say, as they look upon the labor and wrought substance of them, "See! This our fathers did for us."
                    John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Give people

                      people! ! ! ! help ordered that some of the clothing and accessories company RIDGID. since I live in Russia, the city of St. Piterburg, we do not have missions where it could be found, would be very grateful to receive a reply ...

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Re: Thank you Josh

                        "the various states should seriously consider licensing drain cleaners"

                        In NJ if you are not a LMP you have to have a HIC (Home Improvement Contractor) license to do drain cleaning. Any repair or replacement requires a plumbing license. In fact, it you are not covered by a license such as Electrician, Plumber, GC, Builder, and now the new HVAC Contractor license, you have to have a HIC license (since 12/31/2005) to do just about anything in a home, even lay down new carpet or paint/wallpaper.

                        Heating contractors and HVAC contractors now must be licensed just like a plumber is. They have to take a test and the rules and regs mirror pretty much those for plumbers. Hopefully, this will soon put an end to the days of fly-by-night heating and HVAC contractors.

                        http://www.state.nj.us/lps/ca/brief/improve.pdf
                        "When we build let us think we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone. Let it be such work that our descendants will thank us for, and let us think, as we lay stone upon stone, that a time is to come when these stones will be held sacred because our hands have touched them, and that men will say, as they look upon the labor and wrought substance of them, "See! This our fathers did for us."
                        John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Re: The &quot;Union&quot;

                          Originally posted by Sylvan Tieger View Post
                          EH , EH only in Canada as the government heath care is REALLY so good thus no need for a real hospital as the smarter Canoks come across the boarder to seek real medical help thus a Canadian hospital can be a circus tent as the Canadian government knows what it has to deal with so hospitals really are not that high tech in a third world country
                          Canada is a leader in cancer and AIDS research, and how can free health care be a bad thing, especially since we have world class hospitals. Hve you any idea how many countries in the world offer free health care? You're the exception here. I don't take offense to the comment, it just shows how a few bad apples can lead people to the perception that Americans are jerks. I'd say this board is a pretty good indicator. There's about 2 idiots out of 1000 great guys.
                          All that aside, you're still loud-mouth, show off jackass, who probably has no friends in real life. I couldnt imagine having to HEAR you spout off in person, reading what you say is bad enough. Actually that explains why you have so much time to type those long posts you're so famous for. Your expertise is not in plumbing, so much as it is pretending that you know about plumbing, because i'll give you that much, you're good at pretending.
                          West Trail Mechanical Ltd
                          Service. Commitment. Expertise.

                          www.westtrailmechanical.ca

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Re: Give people

                            Originally posted by Dmitrey(RUS) View Post
                            people! ! ! ! help ordered that some of the clothing and accessories company RIDGID. since I live in Russia, the city of St. Piterburg, we do not have missions where it could be found, would be very grateful to receive a reply ...
                            http://www.ridgidgear.com/

                            If you are asking where to buy Ridgid clothing here is a link where you can buy it online.

                            http://www.ridgidgear.com/

                            How are the plumbing trades in Russia these days? Thirty years ago I hired two Russian plumbers right after they arrived in the United States. They told me the government took all of their tools from their suitcases when the left the Russia. They did really well here and before too long started their own Plumbing Business.

                            Mark
                            "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                            I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Re: The &quot;Union&quot;

                              "Former" union service plumber from local plumbers/pipefitters union.

                              Best move I ever made, and it was decided upon the powers that be that discriminated against a physical injury.

                              That is something that wasn't discussed in this thread; the fact of what your worth is to the union IF you get injured and cannot work.

                              You can only suck off that sub pay before you have to bank it back up by putting in hours registered by the union.

                              The profession of plumbing is notorious for creating bad backs and other injuries due to its nature. If you don't have good health, you'll spend a great deal of time sitting the bench.

                              A Spartan 1065 with 100' of cable and 2' leader with no second man to bring up and down rickety steps on a ongoing basis is what did me in.....so they thought.

                              7 years later, 5 years owning my own plumbing company and running as strong as an ox in all aspects of the profession of service plumbing. When I hurt I slow down.

                              My injury was a blessing in disguise; it got me out of the prison camp antics of the union where your head is stamped with a number and if you aren't liked, you're going to have a tough time.

                              Some of us are leaders and a great deal are followers......I'm no follower and I don't need any company or affiliation to delegate my earnings in a cesspool I can't obtain on any given notice.

                              Who says I'm going to live long enough to get that pension? Who's exacting my retirement? Who says I'll be physically working at age required retirement?

                              NONE of you know, you're assuming you'll run full staff to that stopping point if you're lucky.

                              Being a business owner is a privilege as much as it is a freedom. There are no freedoms in the union; if you're a traveller that is a joke of a life. If you are so worried about your performance that you'll end up spending mon through wed working and you have a bad day thurs and your laid off friday.

                              Ever had a bad day folks? Of course you have.....those days count against you if your boss or super has it out against you.

                              And if you have a wife and kids.....you think your local will employ you in close vicinity?


                              I watched a guy who was so imprisoned by the union that his sub pay was running out, the union won't let him pull work non-union and he had to take a 7-7-12 in North Dakota. 7 weeks, 7 days a week, 12 hours a day. All to be laid off when his "state-wide" tour is over and then again, he's on the hunt for his next line of work.

                              Let's not even bother discussing the loss of family life during that 7 week tour. FFS the guy had kids but the union wants no part of feelings towards others.....it's how much money you make them is where your weight is in the union.

                              Am I bitter? Absolutely not. I'm the product of shining example where life hands you a lemon and now your a lemon stand doing what others wouldn't do for you. And my lemons make far better lemonade because I get the profit from those lemons to myself......not shared with a affiliation that wouldn't care if I was scraped off the bottom of a toilet seat.


                              For you young guys looking for admiration with a higher wager per hour found in the union; mind-numbing as it sounds, you'll find out how you become a trained monkey. I strongly advise using the knowledge and schooling, training that the union offers you while you're in there and then break away on your own. You can gain a wealth of knowledge while you're there and use that knowledge for personal gain to your benefit; not to the dismay of big business.

                              You'll get tired of "who's gonna work me into the ground today" routine. If you're a brown-noser.....you'll get the close local work and maybe $2 hourly raise over the others.....but you'll be a foreman and you'll earn that with losing hair turning gray.

                              REMEMBER......EVERYONE MAKES THE SAME IN THE UNION NO MATTER HOW HARD YOU WORK, NO MATTER HOW LITTLE YOUR COWORKER DOESN'T



                              NON-UNION and proud.
                              Last edited by DUNBAR PLUMBING; 01-08-2008, 12:00 PM.
                              Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Re: The &quot;Union&quot;

                                Dunbar....Demitrey,
                                Welcome to the Ridgid forum.
                                Grab a beer,sit down,kick your boots off and enjoy your stay.

                                Some very fine people here.

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