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I'm very proud of this work, what do you guys think?!

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  • #31
    Re: I'm very proud of this work, what do you guys think?!

    Originally posted by freddy View Post
    One other thing that I would have done, not that it's code or anything but I would have put a shutoff on the hot side for future change out. And I would not have put it on any pvc legs, lower the shut off valve, but all in all you did a great job. freddy
    Are you being serious?
    Buy cheap, buy twice.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: I'm very proud of this work, what do you guys think?!

      Originally posted by freddy View Post
      One other thing that I would have done, not that it's code or anything but I would have put a shutoff on the hot side for future change out. And I would not have put it on any pvc legs, lower the shut off valve, but all in all you did a great job. freddy
      Thanks, but can you please explain your reasoning behind this? If you turn off the main water valve, and properly drain down the system, what is the need for this?
      Proud To Be Union!!

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: I'm very proud of this work, what do you guys think?!

        Originally posted by Aaron91 View Post
        Thanks, but can you please explain your reasoning behind this? If you turn off the main water valve, and properly drain down the system, what is the need for this?
        The only situation I used to do this for is in new construction when we installed the heater at rough in. We would shut-off the hot and the cold valves so we could get pressure on for a test without worrying about the T&P letting the test off. I've seen where other new construction plumbers have capped-off the T&P discharge so they didn't have to pay for an additional valve -- not a good idea. First, if they forget to cut the cap off after the test, there is a very real potential hazard. Also, filling a vessel with pressure (especially air) higher than it is rated for is very dangerous. You may not pop the tank during your test, but who knows what damage may have occurred during your test that might cause the tank to fail prematurely?

        Bruce

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        • #34
          Re: I'm very proud of this work, what do you guys think?!

          Bruce- I agree greatly. There's too many 'Mechanics' and not enough Journeymen/Master Plumbers. I'm just waiting to get my GED and I'm going to the Union to be around educated plumbers, and be paired 1 on 1 with a Journeymen. I'm not being cocky when I say I know nearly the same amount as the nearly 40 year old 'Mechanic' I'm usually paired with.

          Yes sir I do, quality, clean, and up to code work is everything to me. That's why I post/refer to this site. Everyday is a new day, and there's something new to learn every day. I try to share my knowledge with 'my helper' but he rather smoke a cigarette or call/text his girlfriend. I tried at least.

          I will be removing the 3/4" Tee and replace it with a 90* and create an air gap on Monday with pictures to follow.

          Thanks for the response Bruce.

          ** Is there anything else I can do to secure the pipe to make sure if the Relief Valve were to ever discharge it goes into the Pipe and not go all over the floor? **
          Proud To Be Union!!

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: I'm very proud of this work, what do you guys think?!

            Originally posted by Aaron91 View Post

            ** Is there anything else I can do to secure the pipe to make sure if the Relief Valve were to ever discharge it goes into the Pipe and not go all over the floor? **
            It looks like you have plenty of space between the wall and the 2" PVC to allow for a 3x2 or 4x2 coupling. Why don't you put one of these on top of the 2" to give it a larger area to catch the splatter?

            Bruce

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            • #36
              Re: I'm very proud of this work, what do you guys think?!

              My reason would be why drain the upper floor when you turn off the valves on both hot and cold water lines. Would make for faster change out. Time is money in most parts and becauce most of the guys on this board can't figure in profit on top of the cost of a job. You would be helping them out down the road . Well at least we could hope...

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: I'm very proud of this work, what do you guys think?!

                Bruce- Thanks, I wasn't thinking when I asked that question.

                Freddy- I respect your opinion.
                Proud To Be Union!!

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: I'm very proud of this work, what do you guys think?!

                  Originally posted by Aaron91 View Post
                  Bruce- Thanks, I wasn't thinking when I asked that question.
                  Which question?

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: I'm very proud of this work, what do you guys think?!

                    The valve on the hot side is a waste of money. This house isn't so big that it needs one.

                    A 3"x2" increaser on the PVC is a good idea if the HVAC guys want to shove their goodies in there too.

                    A split ring hanger would have been a better support than the 2x4 and plastic J hook on the relief discharge.

                    I usually mount my expansion tanks vertically.

                    Use rubber equipment pads under the next heater if you want but that gap will hide anything that falls on the floor and rolls under it.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: I'm very proud of this work, what do you guys think?!

                      Bruce- The question where I asked what I should do to make sure the air gap on the Relief Valve doesn't create a mess everywhere, and you replied to use the 3"-2" reducer.

                      Crack- Thanks for the ideas for the next one.
                      Proud To Be Union!!

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Vacuum breaker (good call Duck)

                        Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                        Other point I opted not to mention so not to confuse him was vacuum breaker, required here, but apparently obsolete in many states.

                        I assume if they were required in MD Aaron would have put one on.

                        Humorous note, so much for my efforts to not confuse him, starting to wonder how good an idea it is for him to seek insights outside his code jurisdiction.

                        The Vacuum breaker is required OR should be installed IF the tank is located above the lowest fixture to prevent the tank from imploding.

                        The "Codes" I normally refer to are the National Board of Boiler Inspectors (NBBI) American Society of Mechanical Engineers, (ASME) National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) Or the local codes, the best way to go is the one that is more stringent.

                        Also the height of the tank requirements came from one of the members of my list (Wayne Harris) who designed the 18" stand accepted by the PHCC for hot water heaters to stand on Prior to the flame safe guard feature as the UL and NFPA did a lot of testing with flammable vapors and it was found 18" was the safe height to protect from certain flammable liquids to reach the flame (pilot light)

                        DuckButter There is nothing wrong with adding the extra precaution unlike the folks who fail to install two shut off valves on hot water tank or those who install a boiler without a king valve.

                        Penny wise and no common decency and shows a lack of understanding on ASME /NBBI testing procedures.

                        Many so called "plumbers" lack the technical aspects afforded by the UA training programs and others just never knew of other codes except the local mickey mouse ones you find in some areas.

                        What I do find ironic is when someone says you do not two valves as it is a waste of money , THUS the reasoning is they are giving the valves away for FREE?

                        How does one totally isolate the tank so there is no back feed if only valve is used?

                        How does one pressure test the vessel?

                        Install and forgetaboutit huh?











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                        • #42
                          Re:correct call

                          Originally posted by freddy View Post
                          One other thing that I would have done, not that it's code or anything but I would have put a shutoff on the hot side for future change out. And I would not have put it on any pvc legs, lower the shut off valve, but all in all you did a great job. freddy

                          GREAT call Freddy

                          Common decency and Yes many civilized codes do require a means of isolating the vessel.

                          Goes to show how some folks think get in get out and do as cheap job as possible

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: I'm very proud of this work, what do you guys think?!

                            It seems we are talking apples and oranges here. It appears the water heater in question is installed in a single family residential home. The way I would pressure test a water heater in a single family residential home would be to open the cold water valve to the water heater.

                            If there were multiple water heaters in the home or multiple units being fed by the heater a second valve may help but in this case as has already been pointed out it would be a waste of the customer's money.

                            Mark
                            Last edited by ToUtahNow; 09-23-2007, 12:31 PM.
                            "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                            I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              HI Bruce (other please don't bother to read)

                              Originally posted by brucestorey View Post
                              The only situation I used to do this for is in new construction when we installed the heater at rough in. We would shut-off the hot and the cold valves so we could get pressure on for a test without worrying about the T&P letting the test off. I've seen where other new construction plumbers have capped-off the T&P discharge so they didn't have to pay for an additional valve -- not a good idea. First, if they forget to cut the cap off after the test, there is a very real potential hazard. Also, filling a vessel with pressure (especially air) higher than it is rated for is very dangerous. You may not pop the tank during your test, but who knows what damage may have occurred during your test that might cause the tank to fail prematurely?

                              Bruce

                              FYI

                              When doing a test the reasoning for a hydrostatic tests as opposed to pneumatics is quite simple.

                              Picture someone taking two balloons one being filled with water the other with air and then you see the water balloon just harmlessly PLOPS open and the air gives off a violent explosion.

                              This proves that air is compressible THUS the reasoning for the T&P valve as it serves a duel purpose

                              1- Relief valve = water, liquids

                              2- Safety (pop) valve vapor and air and gas

                              The T&P is unique as it is designed to discharge vapor in case the upper part of the tank becomes air bound and designed to act as a relief valve if the pressure exceeds 150 PSI or 210 deg.

                              When doing a boiler test or a pressure 5 year vessel we test the vessel 11/2 the actual working pressure.

                              This is why boilers (by ASME /NBBI) code are considered high pressure steam 15# and water boilers 160 PSI or 250 Degrees F.

                              Of course it would require special circumstances to have 250 deg temperature heating system because as soon as a pipe ruptures the water would flash into steam and considering 1 cubic INCH of water would equal about one cubic foot Or 1700 cubic inches of steam (dangerous stuff)

                              Also the heater should be in the test as it is part of the system and and if the T&P should fail to go off you would think the installer would want to know.

                              Unlike a boiler a domestic gas heater has one safety (not including flame safe guard) and one operating control.

                              Boilers have operating and safety like high limit temperature or pressure trols plus the safety / Relief valves sized by the BTU input in case of a run away firing condition.

                              The ONLY time we GAG the safety / relief valve is when doing hydrostatic 5 year test and then ONLY after isolating the vessel (YES TWO valves are needed) to build up pressure to check the automatic operation of the safety device first and then after we know it is functioning, we gag it and test the actual boiler /tank.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: I'm very proud of this work, what do you guys think?!

                                Originally posted by Aaron91 View Post

                                5. I used a Ramset and put a 2"x4" on the wall so the copper wasn't contacting the concrete. What chemical reaction is this called? I knew not to do it, but I forgot what the reaction is called.

                                I think you might be confusing electrolysis from iron and copper contacting directly. Direct contact to concrete causes absolutely no harm to the copper. As a matter of fact concrete structures typically use copper tubing encased in the concrete.

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