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I'm very proud of this work, what do you guys think?!

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  • #61
    Re: I'm very proud of this work, what do you guys think?!

    Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
    Mark, if you recall I had a water main repair a couple of weeks back.
    The curb stop was frozen open. -galvy
    The street main just spun in place with nothing happening. -galvy
    The valve on the main street...you guessed it -galvy
    They had to come back another day, after getting approval, to shut down a fraction of the town, then excavate & install a curb at this house.
    I think the local engineer mentioned the lines were as old as 100 years.
    I asked him if the towns budget committee had any upcoming plans to replace any of it...his reply: "I'd be rich if I had a nickle for every time I heard that question."
    I guess my advantage is my water company is only 10-years old and I don't allow galvanize corporate stops or valves. Right now I am catching some flak from some home owners regarding my requirements for backflow protection but I figure if they don't like my rules they can drill a well.

    Mark
    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

    Comment


    • #62
      Re: RE one product

      Originally posted by Sylvan Tieger View Post

      ........The problem as I see it is many material manufacturers always tell how great their products are but never the short comings! .....
      THIS is what I'm talkin' 'bout!
      Exchange of REAL experiences between professionals, untouched by bias.
      Every supplier I go to has small demo packages on the counter, you ask, they rave "It's the best thing since sliced bread", "It's code approved, tested and proven", I think to myself "says who?".
      The fact that so many major MFG's invest soooo much time in seminars & promotion tells me that maybe popular concensus has proven swayed by shear tenacity, less by substantial fact.

      Comment


      • #63
        Re: I'm very proud of this work, what do you guys think?!

        Originally posted by Sylvan Tieger View Post
        On Long Island (NY) right after WW2 they had a site called Levitt town where they used copper for under the slab heating STATE OF THE ART at the time and really affordable housing for the returning vets.


        Many of these heating systems failed with in 40 years (not to bad considering how many state of the art plastic failures there are in less then 5 years)

        I Guess it has to do with the content with in the cement.

        Being on the East coast there was an abundance of cinder from coal which they used for cinder blocks and added to cinder to the cement (possibly to save on sand?)

        Any how the cement was / is highly corrosive and That possibly gave cement a bad rap for placing piping in direct contact
        Not surprisingly a lot of the problems seem to arise when the agregate used is what's easily available as opposed to what should properly be used. Not directly plumbing related but we had a problem here some time ago where several houses in a neighborhood had the concrete in the walls and ceilings start cracking severely and bursting something like 15 years after they were built. Engineers eventually figured out beach sand (highly illegal for so many reasons)had been used with the cement probbaly to save money. Needless to say it was causing the rebar and almost anything made of metal in the wall to severely corrode.
        Anyway, bottom line is it's up to code as to whether you can or not do it but experience has shown, that barring a few exceptions it is safe to do so. Like I said it's standard practice here. You simply can not get around it by any practical means unless you like your tubing to run outside the walls. It has NEVER proven to be a problem even with buildings 50-60-70+ years old. It's ok with any plumber or engineer. Given the amount of metal reinforcement required in current building codes concrete mixes are unlikely to allow anything that would pose a threat to most metals. The case of cinder it would probably attack the steel reinforcement in modern buildings so I highly doubt that would be allowed by any means now.
        Last edited by Velosapien; 09-23-2007, 06:03 PM.

        Comment


        • #64
          Re: RE one product

          Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
          THIS is what I'm talkin' 'bout!
          Exchange of REAL experiences between professionals, untouched by bias.
          Every supplier I go to has small demo packages on the counter, you ask, they rave "It's the best thing since sliced bread", "It's code approved, tested and proven", I think to myself "says who?".
          The fact that so many major MFG's invest soooo much time in seminars & promotion tells me that maybe popular concensus has proven swayed by shear tenacity, less by substantial fact.


          Every few months I get to test tools and saw blades etc. for a testing company asking if we like the way the saw felt etc and what differences we would make.

          The carpenters knew what brands we were testing as I never use a circular saw I said give me a sawzall

          The names of course were blacked out

          I did learn one thing as a plumber in my opinion I do not think a cordless snake or saw is strong enough for our work as the batteries seemed to quit to fast under torque

          One thing I like about lists is folks can talk about anything related to the profession even the politics's of non licensed no legals dabbling in the field.

          You have to admit the "expert witness" gig sure pays a lot without having to carry a first aid kit (non back breaking work) as you get paid to ramble codes and product failures and no matter what its only an opinion

          Being "approved" to me means someone lined the right pockets as NY has the best female carpet bagging senator money can buy.

          By the way most supply houses that offer coffee and donuts get my vote on service





          Comment


          • #65
            Re: I'm very proud of this work, what do you guys think?!

            This of course is getting way off topic but there is a big difference between being Code Approved and being compatible with the environment you are installing it in. As professionals we should know the difference.

            Mark
            "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

            I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

            Comment


            • #66
              Re: I'm very proud of this work, what do you guys think?!

              Originally posted by Velosapien View Post
              Not surprisingly a lot of the problems seem to arise when the agregate used is what's easily available as opposed to what should properly be used. Not directly plumbing related but we had a problem here some time ago where several houses in a neighborhood had the concrete in the walls and ceilings start cracking severely and bursting something like 15 years after they were built. Engineers eventually figured out beach sand (highly illegal for so many reasons)had been used with the cement probbaly to save money. Needless to say it was causing the rebar and almost anything made of metal in the wall to severely corrode.
              Anyway, bottom line is it's up to code as to whether you can or not do it but experience has shown, that barring a few exceptions it is safe to do so. Like I said it's standard practice here. You simply can not get around it by any practical means unless you like your tubing to run outside the walls. It has NEVER proven to be a problem even with buildings 50-60-70+ years old. It's ok with any plumber or engineer. Given the amount of metal reinforcement required in current building codes concrete mixes are unlikely to allow anything that would pose a threat to most metals. The case of cinder it would probably attack the steel reinforcement in modern buildings so I highly doubt that would be allowed by any means now.

              When the world trade centers were being built I asked how come it doesn't have a duel fire suppression system like were on aircraft carriers water and possibly foam or Ansul type system in case of a high rise fire as there was no means for the fire department to extinguish it. Even the super pumper couldn't reach that high.

              The answer was Sovern immunity as the WTC was not under the NYC building code as it would be cost prohibitive to follow NYC building department guide lines and it did not come under the New Jersey code as the Port of NY and NJ is a separate entity and thus they write and approve their own codes much like OU did not have to have their boiler plant follow Oklahoma's boiler codes.

              Not that it would have prevented the total destruction because of the flammable fuel fires but it may have bought valuable time for folks to get out and the foam we used in the 1960s to fight fires in the navy fire fighting schools did put out jet fuel fires and the technology was there.

              Now NYC has new codes coming up I wonder what effects it will have on all building fire suppression and plumbing and fire proof stairways

              The codes set up minimum guide lines and there are the contractors who look to save the accounts money not thinking of what can happen later and do not even say hey you know we should do the following just in case.


              Just like non vets and non military folks calling the shots on how a war should be fought politics rears its ugly head.

              I wish just once they would put on the ballet that all senators and congressmen /women must be drug tested and lets see the results as to who makes the laws of the land and decides what goes into codes





              Comment


              • #67
                Re: I'm very proud of this work, what do you guys think?!

                "There's too many 'Mechanics' and not enough Journeymen/Master Plumbers."

                Easy there Aaron, you just figured out which shoe goes on which foot and already you are a little too critical of others. Two years(give or take), a 5 Gal. bucket with a couple hand tools, and a PU truck do not qualify you to do much yet.

                "I'm just waiting to get my GED and I'm going to the Union to be around educated plumbers, and be paired 1 on 1 with a Journeymen."

                It doesn't necessarily go that way, the one-on-one bit. You'll be working under a Journeyman yes, but you may not be assigned to that person every day.

                Getting your GED is only part of being able to apply. As an example
                here is a piece on what is required to apply to one of the locals in NJ.


                ---------snip--------
                Applicants must be at least 17 years of age at the time of application
                and hold a valid driver’s license and must be 18 years of age prior
                to being indentured by the JATC.

                To receive an application, copies of all the following documents must
                be presented along with a $30.00 Money Order payable to Local 322
                Education Fund to cover processing fees (NO CHECKS will be accepted).

                Applications will not be handed out without proper copies of all required documents.


                Applicant requirements which must be met


                to be considered for an apprenticeship.




                1. Must be at least 18 years of age and hold a valid driver's license
                2. Birth certificate or other such document for proof of age.
                3. High school diploma and transcript -or- high school equivalency (GED) certificate and official report of test results.
                4. Military transfer or discharge Form DD-214, if applicable.
                5. Successfully complete an aptitude test when scheduled.
                6. Appear for interview when notified.
                7. Recruitment, selection, employment and training will be without discrimination because of race, color, religion, national origin or sex.
                8. Those individuals that are accepted for the probationary apprenticeship will be required to present a medical statement as proof of their physical well being, as well as, passing a drug test prior to job placement. The expense of the physical exam will be paid by the applicant. The Joint Apprenticeship Committee will schedule the date, location and pay for the drug screen test.
                9. Applicants must reside in and have been a bona fide resident of the geographical jurisdiction of Local 322 for one year prior to making application. This includes all of Atlantic, Burlington, Camden, Cape May, Cumberland, Gloucester, Ocean and Salem Counties. (view/download a NJ State map in Adobe .PDF format)
                10. This announcement does not guarantee employment.
                All applicants must apply in person.

                Prior applicants must resubmit the above documents.

                Incomplete applications will not be considered.






                -----------snip-----------

                .
                Last edited by Bob D.; 09-23-2007, 08:31 PM.
                "When we build let us think we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone. Let it be such work that our descendants will thank us for, and let us think, as we lay stone upon stone, that a time is to come when these stones will be held sacred because our hands have touched them, and that men will say, as they look upon the labor and wrought substance of them, "See! This our fathers did for us."
                John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

                Comment


                • #68
                  NJ Union

                  [quote=Bob D.;95657]"There's too many 'Mechanics' and not enough Journeymen/Master Plumbers."

                  Easy there Aaron, you just figured out which shoe goes on which foot and already you are a little too critical of others. Two years(give or take), a 5 Gal. bucket with a couple hand tools, and a PU truck do not qualify you to do much yet.

                  "I'm just waiting to get my GED and I'm going to the Union to be around educated plumbers, and be paired 1 on 1 with a Journeymen."

                  It doesn't necessarily go that way, the one-on-one bit. You'll be working under a Journeyman yes, but you may not be assigned to that person every day.

                  Getting your GED is only part of being able to apply. As an example
                  here is a piece on what is required to apply to one of the locals in NJ.


                  ---------snip--------
                  Applicants must be at least 17 years of age at the time of application
                  and hold a valid driver’s license and must be 18 years of age prior
                  to being indentured by the JATC.

                  To receive an application, copies of all the following documents must
                  be presented along with a $30.00 Money Order payable to Local 322
                  Education Fund to cover processing fees (NO CHECKS will be accepted).

                  Applications will not be handed out without proper copies of all required documents.

                  Do you know Steve Paul? He is the math instructor for the NJ apprenticeship program and has is state LMP

                  If you do please tell him give me a shout...

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: NJ Union

                    No, don't know him, but you might find an email address for him here if you know which local he is with.

                    http://www.njpipetrades.com/
                    "When we build let us think we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone. Let it be such work that our descendants will thank us for, and let us think, as we lay stone upon stone, that a time is to come when these stones will be held sacred because our hands have touched them, and that men will say, as they look upon the labor and wrought substance of them, "See! This our fathers did for us."
                    John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: I'm very proud of this work, what do you guys think?!

                      Originally posted by Bob D. View Post
                      "There's too many 'Mechanics' and not enough Journeymen/Master Plumbers."

                      Easy there Aaron, you just figured out which shoe goes on which foot and already you are a little too critical of others. Two years(give or take), a 5 Gal. bucket with a couple hand tools, and a PU truck do not qualify you to do much yet.

                      "I'm just waiting to get my GED and I'm going to the Union to be around educated plumbers, and be paired 1 on 1 with a Journeymen."

                      It doesn't necessarily go that way, the one-on-one bit. You'll be working under a Journeyman yes, but you may not be assigned to that person every day.

                      Getting your GED is only part of being able to apply. As an example
                      here is a piece on what is required to apply to one of the locals in NJ.


                      ---------snip--------
                      Applicants must be at least 17 years of age at the time of application
                      and hold a valid driver’s license and must be 18 years of age prior
                      to being indentured by the JATC.

                      To receive an application, copies of all the following documents must
                      be presented along with a $30.00 Money Order payable to Local 322
                      Education Fund to cover processing fees (NO CHECKS will be accepted).

                      Applications will not be handed out without proper copies of all required documents.


                      Applicant requirements which must be met

                      to be considered for an apprenticeship.





                      1. Must be at least 18 years of age and hold a valid driver's license
                      2. Birth certificate or other such document for proof of age.
                      3. High school diploma and transcript -or- high school equivalency (GED) certificate and official report of test results.
                      4. Military transfer or discharge Form DD-214, if applicable.
                      5. Successfully complete an aptitude test when scheduled.
                      6. Appear for interview when notified.
                      7. Recruitment, selection, employment and training will be without discrimination because of race, color, religion, national origin or sex.
                      8. Those individuals that are accepted for the probationary apprenticeship will be required to present a medical statement as proof of their physical well being, as well as, passing a drug test prior to job placement. The expense of the physical exam will be paid by the applicant. The Joint Apprenticeship Committee will schedule the date, location and pay for the drug screen test.
                      9. Applicants must reside in and have been a bona fide resident of the geographical jurisdiction of Local 322 for one year prior to making application. This includes all of Atlantic, Burlington, Camden, Cape May, Cumberland, Gloucester, Ocean and Salem Counties. (view/download a NJ State map in Adobe .PDF format)
                      10. This announcement does not guarantee employment.
                      All applicants must apply in person.

                      Prior applicants must resubmit the above documents.

                      Incomplete applications will not be considered.






                      -----------snip-----------

                      .

                      Good job for finding this for Aaron..maybe he already knows the requirements...maybe not...but it's nice of you to just give an example...

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Re: NJ Union

                        Originally posted by Bob D. View Post
                        No, don't know him, but you might find an email address for him here if you know which local he is with.

                        http://www.njpipetrades.com/
                        Thank you so much....

                        Get ready for the heating calls Yippieeee

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: I'm very proud of this work, what do you guys think?!

                          Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                          I believe he may be referring to PHCC's "National Standard Plumbing Code".

                          Mark
                          Do some states use this in their enforcement.I am only aware of the UPC and IPC enforcements.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Re: I'm very proud of this work, what do you guys think?!

                            Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
                            Do some states use this in their enforcement.I am only aware of the UPC and IPC enforcements.
                            Bob D posted it is now limited to just New Jersey and Connecticut. I was guessing at which Standard Code he was referring to as I noticed the poster states he is a member of NAPHCC.

                            Mark
                            "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                            I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Re: I'm very proud of this work, what do you guys think?!

                              hey, i like your concern about future service people in regards to the t and p tee--like was said earlier raise up higher with a 90 fitting on top pointed towards a safe direction, i like the pvc couplings--keeps tank off ground reducing temp/ convection and potential rust--also very strong, here in ca we have to use straps--not a bad idea anyway--you never know what or who is going to be banging into the tank, very clean work though--keep up the work ! by the way how often do see tankless water heaters ? what do you think of them ? what is copper prices like where you live ? hang in there

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Re: I'm very proud of this work, what do you guys think?!

                                Another So.Cal.,
                                Palmdale,A desert rat

                                Do any desert racing.I drive past your town on my way to Cal-City and beyond.

                                Welcome to the best forum

                                Adam

                                Comment

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