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  • #31
    Re: kitchen double sink

    Here, countless shops hire unlicensed guys to work as "mechanics" without supervision for less money than a licensed guy to keep prices down.
    Just like PEX, most new residential shops are bidding with PEX because they'd lose their shirts pricing with copper.
    That is the BIGGEST reason I avoid new construction & remodels.
    Younger, less experienced GC's who don't know how to price, looking for more money, that take the lowest price with subs and the homeowner pays the final price often years after the fact.
    There was a thing on 20/20 the other night with the guy from "Holmes on homes" talking about some scary statistics.
    Rick, I'll guess thats the case in Cali as well, doing repair/service you get to see the end results.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: kitchen double sink

      Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
      believe it or not 50% of our state contractors license is strictly on business and contractors laws. the other 50% was trade.

      please read my post about underqualified plumbers, contractors and inspectors.

      just because a person has a license, doesn't mean they know right from wrong. you would hope they do, but inspecting others work for many years, i know some don't. and that some is more than you think. i too wish it would be much harder for the average person to get a license, but it's not. even a contractors license is fairly easy.

      most of my opinion is based on the repair sector, not the new construction side. at least from 1981 to present. the new construction guys i worked with were all licensed and very good at what they did. just don't count on them for service and repair.

      at least we agree on 2 out of 3

      rick.
      My Master Plumber test was a joke as well...it definitely made me scratch my head a little bit. I actually felt I was over qualified to take that test.
      But in New Jersey..it was the most thorough test I've ever seen or taken..and the toughest! I failed that test btw..after I went to school for that code for 4 years and carried a 92%.

      Their test is in 3 parts..Theory,Business law,and Blue Prints/drawing. I failed my drawing..can you believe that? I got so mad and insulted..I didn't go back in the spring to retake that part of it. I personally think it was politics and my mouth(argument with the Plumbing board) in why I failed..but that is a discussion for another time.

      I understand what you're saying now..but in general, I think we both agree on the same values.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: kitchen double sink

        Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
        Here, countless shops hire unlicensed guys to work as "mechanics" without supervision for less money than a licensed guy to keep prices down.
        Just like PEX, most new residential shops are bidding with PEX because they'd lose their shirts pricing with copper.
        That is the BIGGEST reason I avoid new construction & remodels.
        Younger, less experienced GC's who don't know how to price, looking for more money, that take the lowest price with subs and the homeowner pays the final price often years after the fact.
        There was a thing on 20/20 the other night with the guy from "Holmes on homes" talking about some scary statistics.
        Rick, I'll guess thats the case in Cali as well, doing repair/service you get to see the end results.
        Duck,your good at reminding me of things.

        I once saw one of his guys who was mudding drywall inside corners without tape

        Gotta keep an eye on everyone eh?

        He did a sweet job re waterproofing the outside of a basement on one episode.That one's my favorite.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: kitchen double sink

          Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
          Here, countless shops hire unlicensed guys to work as "mechanics" without supervision for less money than a licensed guy to keep prices down.
          Just like PEX, most new residential shops are bidding with PEX because they'd lose their shirts pricing with copper.
          That is the BIGGEST reason I avoid new construction & remodels.
          Younger, less experienced GC's who don't know how to price, looking for more money, that take the lowest price with subs and the homeowner pays the final price often years after the fact.
          There was a thing on 20/20 the other night with the guy from "Holmes on homes" talking about some scary statistics.
          Rick, I'll guess thats the case in Cali as well, doing repair/service you get to see the end results.
          On the issue of lack of workmanship.
          You can not even imagine.I could tell some scary stuff.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: kitchen double sink

            Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
            Here, countless shops hire unlicensed guys to work as "mechanics" without supervision for less money than a licensed guy to keep prices down.
            Just like PEX, most new residential shops are bidding with PEX because they'd lose their shirts pricing with copper.
            That is the BIGGEST reason I avoid new construction & remodels.
            Younger, less experienced GC's who don't know how to price, looking for more money, that take the lowest price with subs and the homeowner pays the final price often years after the fact.
            There was a thing on 20/20 the other night with the guy from "Holmes on homes" talking about some scary statistics.
            Rick, I'll guess thats the case in Cali as well, doing repair/service you get to see the end results.
            I agree with everything you said Duck.

            Funny thing on Pex...we finally got set-up to start using it, and now none of my customers want it. We installed this stuff in an old farm house on a horse farm recently , and the owner made us rip it out, cause she said "this isn't a track home"..lol.
            The job had to stop, because she didn't understand there was a price difference between Pex and copper. She's a Millionaire so..Copper won out in the end.

            I was told I needed to get with the times on this board, and when I finally do, I'm told to "RIP IT OUT"...lol

            K..bedtime for me..my eyes are crossed and getting sleepy. Enjoyed the banter with you guys tonight.
            Last edited by Ozone89; 10-01-2007, 10:53 PM.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: kitchen double sink

              I know you've been here for a while.












              WELCOME TO THE FORUM OZONE89
              Adam

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: kitchen double sink


                Hey ozone & tegier i know a lot of good drain cleaners i would stack against any 10 licensed plumbers as far as doing drains,
                also just because someone dos'nt have a lic. dos'nt mean they don't know how plumbing is run or what kind of vent stacts that are out there,
                It just means in most states you are not requred to pass a journeyman or master's
                test in order to do drains,

                i have gone over jobs done by lic. plumbers before i got my lic. and corrected
                their many many mistakes so don't go giving the B/S about a lic. making you smarter!!!
                and yes i am lic. plbg,heat,fire sprinklers,drains, and electric, and gen. contractor.

                JERRYMAC MASTERPLUMBER & MASTER DRAINMAN,

                I SNAKE ANY DRAIN, PLUMB. ANY PIPES,
                AND MAKE COLD WATER BOIL ON A FREEZING DAY!!!!
                JERRYMAC
                E-MAILJERRYMAC777@GMAIL.COM
                CALIF. LIC. PLBG,HEAT,DRAINS,ELECTRIC,WATER HEATER, BOILER, POOL AND SPA HEATER
                FIRE SPRINKLER CONTRACTOR,
                SINCE JAN. 1989

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: kitchen double sink

                  Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
                  On the issue of lack of workmanship.
                  You can not even imagine.I could tell some scary stuff.
                  We'll have to start a thread on it...I have a few up my sleeve too.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: kitchen double sink

                    Originally posted by Ozone89 View Post
                    In the State of Pennsylvania, a Plumbing License means everything. Drain medic already admitted to me he isn't Licensed, and he's working in area's where you need to be licensed to drain clean. I've warned him already, that 1 should watch what you say on a message board, cause you never know when someone in code enforcement or township official would be watching. Blatantly breaking the law,and running your mouth, is not my idea of being a Professional and a way to conduct business. There is a reason why we follow rules in life...if there were no rules, we wouldn't be require to have Plumbing licenses.
                    Each year, I always nab a handful of Drain Cleaners and illegal Plumbers, who think they are above the law provided by the State and health department. There are some area's in Pa, who have not adopted this law, in which he is free to work. But when you sit there and tell me on a message board, that you work in my coded area without a Plumbing License..that takes balls! There is a reason why the Big Drain companies are licensed Plumbers...he is no different.

                    Anyways,

                    I've been extremely busy with work, which is a surprise, since the housing market took a dump. I've also been busy with inspections and township B/S... I have not had time to log on and chat.

                    If you read above...i wasnt giving PLUMBING advice...and i also said to GET HELP FAST...and ASK YOUR NEIGHBORS TO TURN THE WATER OFF...there is no plumbing advice there, i didnt tell them to take their sink apart..take out their garbage disposal...no plumbing advice there..2nd. Your absolutely right, a plumbing licesne means everything...I dont do plumbing, never said i did do plumbing..I do Drain cleaning, which i have been doing for over 12yrs for a company that didnt do plumbing, to a company that was a full service plumbing and drain cleaning company..How do you know what areas im working in???? I never said i come in your areas at all...I dont even know where you are...i think you said Collegville...I used to work for a company that went to that area alot...If i told you im sure you know exactly who they are. Every TWP i go to for the 1st time, i stop in the municipal buildings ...find out what is required...and register with payment...If i run into a job that needs a plumber, i will call one on the spot, let them know where the break is and what is needed...When a main or a kitchen sink comes into play that needs a toilet pulled or a trap taken apart, there are usually other alternatives...stacks, cleanouts etc...specially in alot of the areas in Pennsylvania...Im sorry Drain Cleaning requires no licesne...i am...i wish they did, but they dont, i have 2 million in insurance to protect myself and other people...I understand your thing with license..and i agree...But you know some of these jobs that licensed plumbers go on around these areas are crazy...When i see a licesnsed plumber using bowl wax as putty for a repair plate on a stack...makes ya wonder....Anyway im not trying to stir the pot on this at all...Just stating my point..
                    Last edited by Drain Medic; 10-02-2007, 07:04 AM.
                    The History of Sanitary Sewers Good site on the history of sanitary sewers and cleaners

                    www.thedrainsquad.net Our website

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: kitchen double sink

                      Originally posted by gear junkie View Post
                      Ozone, you got this so wrong. Your arguement with Greg is that he doesn't need to give advice because he's not licensed. Was his advice good? I think so. What if he was licensed but gave the same advice? Would you think any different? If so, why? You place the license on a pedestal and it seems that's all you see. Look at the man behind the license (or not). Let's say Rick, Utah, or any of these guys didn't have a license. Would their advice have been any less useful? A license does set a minimum standard to work in the trades but look at the whole picture, it doesn't fully measure one's knowledge.

                      As for me being an immature kid; call me a kid, that's in retrospect of your age compared to mine. Immature, I'm not. I'll give you a run down of who I don't like on the forum:
                      1. teiger- why even bother commenting
                      2. Dog- bullies people and posts have been written about his actions. I do believe Dog is a valuable addition to the forum but me and him have different personalities and got off on the wrong foot. Can't get along with everyone in life. No big deal.
                      3. freddy- you want to talk about about a guy that shouldn't give plumbing advice, go after him. Look at his posts. We don't even know what state he's from.
                      That's all of them. I like and care for everyone else and they would always have a place to stay if they came to Virginia. I'm passionate about the forum because I met people who live plumbing like myself. What you take as being confrontational, I consider standing up for myself and what I would be priviledged to call, my friends.

                      You're just as passionate about your job and take it very seriously. I love that. Just don't take a light ribbing too seriously.

                      Ben
                      Thanks for the love there bud. and as for where I'am from.
                      I come from your state of mind. My advise is an opinion, unless your paying me. Duh let's talk about plumbing for profit.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: kitchen double sink

                        Originally posted by Drain Medic View Post
                        If you read above...i wasnt giving PLUMBING advice...and i also said to GET HELP FAST...and ASK YOUR NEIGHBORS TO TURN THE WATER OFF...there is no plumbing advice there, i didnt tell them to take their sink apart..take out their garbage disposal...no plumbing advice there..2nd. Your absolutely right, a plumbing licesne means everything...I dont do plumbing, never said i did do plumbing..I do Drain cleaning, which i have been doing for over 12yrs for a company that didnt do plumbing, to a company that was a full service plumbing and drain cleaning company..How do you know what areas im working in???? I never said i come in your areas at all...I dont even know where you are...i think you said Collegville...I used to work for a company that went to that area alot...If i told you im sure you know exactly who they are. Every TWP i go to for the 1st time, i stop in the municipal buildings ...find out what is required...and register with payment...If i run into a job that needs a plumber, i will call one on the spot, let them know where the break is and what is needed...When a main or a kitchen sink comes into play that needs a toilet pulled or a trap taken apart, there are usually other alternatives...stacks, cleanouts etc...specially in alot of the areas in Pennsylvania...Im sorry Drain Cleaning requires no licesne...i am...i wish they did, but they dont, i have 2 million in insurance to protect myself and other people...I understand your thing with license..and i agree...But you know some of these jobs that licensed plumbers go on around these areas are crazy...When i see a licesnsed plumber using bowl wax as putty for a repair plate on a stack...makes ya wonder....Anyway im not trying to stir the pot on this at all...Just stating my point..

                        Well said, I am late with a reply, but anyways, I understand Ozone's point about the license, we have so many here that they are killing the market, fly by nighters, they don't care about the trade, they don't care about the customer, here one day, gone the next. I wish I could single handidly clean up the industry here, the license protects the customer, not the contractor. these jackasses are taking money from my family and making it harder to work an honest trade.

                        If someone values the trade, takes pride in their work, and takes the time to become licensed, they wouldn't charge $10 hr to do plumbing work, they would value their trade and not kill it.

                        I have spoken to Greg many times, he is very knowledgable on the phone, and he posts well, he cares about the trade and I am sure, if he needs to become licensed, then he will do so. Greg has alot of dedication and is an excellent businessman.

                        Ozone, please come here to los angeles and you will have plenty of non-licensed "contractors" (who do not care about the trades), to chase after.
                        Last edited by westcoastplumber; 10-02-2007, 08:00 PM.
                        sigpic

                        Robert

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                        • #42
                          Re: kitchen double sink

                          By the way, you need to have knowlege of a waste and vent system to be a good drain cleaner, I do it all, clean drains and plumb, without knowlege of a waste and vent system, drain cleaning would be tough.

                          Drain cleaning isn't just put the cable in the line until the stoppage clears, you need to have technique and understanding of waste and vent, so don't under estimate good drain cleaners.
                          sigpic

                          Robert

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: kitchen double sink

                            Originally posted by westcoastplumber View Post
                            By the way, you need to have knowlege of a waste and vent system to be a good drain cleaner, I do it all, clean drains and plumb, without knowlege of a waste and vent system, drain cleaning would be tough.

                            Drain cleaning isn't just put the cable in the line until the stoppage clears, you need to have technique and understanding of waste and vent, so don't under estimate good drain cleaners.
                            Not a plumber, so please excuse my intrusion: My brother was having problems with his bathroom toilet flushing (on septic tank near a lake) and had been pumping out the septic tank (not filled with solids). Figured the line was clogged so called a professional. The guy went to the roof and broke through a 6" almost concrete-like mass of the three-ply toilet paper that had floated up and made a substantial plug in the vent. Cured the problem. Needless to say they aren't using the "fluffy" toilet paper anymore, but the point was that the blockage wasn't in the drain.

                            Go
                            Practicing at practical wood working

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: kitchen double sink

                              i hope this ozone gets depleated inside here too from too much garbage. i worked as a drain cleaner for a while during my first year. i had been plumbing for a couple of years by this point and they hired me so they could advertise that a plumber goes to every call. who was the best in the company? a 30 + year old truck driver who could work a jetter and scrub lines better than everyone else around. ozoneyou value a liscence.. that i understand, if you feel that a master is so far superier to some of these evils of the world how about passing a law that every ten years a re-test has to take place? i think you will find allot of "masters" were up to par when they took their tests but are out of touch now. i hired a plumbing inspector to come and work for us in the past few weeks. his ability to recall all of the little codes that allot of people miss is outstanding. his ability to do the job was far from a minimum standard.


                              those who cant teach whine or critisize others to feel superior. drain medic, as a plumber i would rather you be on the job than any of my guys. you have specialized, learned your craft, and seem a to be stand up fellow.

                              cheers dm and keep clean
                              how is it that so many answers are in the instructions

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: kitchen double sink

                                I disagree with ozone about the license but I like having him around and wish he would post more. He brings a lot to the table. The other guy would spread his word to insult other members. He seemed to have a malicious intent behind his posting. Ozone seems to want to bring the trade of plumbing up to the levels it used to have. I applaud him for this even though his message seems a little rough. Sometimes we tend to generalize and try fit people in a box and label them (liscenced or unlisenced-no in between). We need to look at people as individuals and see the skill set and how they operate.
                                Buy cheap, buy twice.

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