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  • #16
    Re: Job Related Question With Picture

    Plumbdog,

    I give some of my guys a lot of grief about compression stops, I think its taking the easy way out. But I am a engineer, not a plumber and my guys stand behind their work and will typically use compression stops unless the specifications call for otherwise.

    I got a lot to learn, but I will never be a plumber. My background is more on the HVAC side of things but I have really come to appreciate plumbers and what they do more so every day.

    Regards,

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Job Related Question With Picture

      You are not going to Master tubing bending overnight.Take your benders home on your own time and practice with discarded copper.Any angle can be accomplished .Use the marks on the tool to line up your radius/bend.The copper will easily hold the mixing valve. Any contractor will tell you copper trim is the way to go here. These faucets are to expensive to cheapen the look/work IF the plumbing is exposed.Be patient grass hopper.I've got great pics what the benders can accomplish. I will try to post them later,Good-luck buddy.PATIENCE.
      Joe/apf

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      • #18
        Re: Job Related Question With Picture

        I hadn't posted yet on this thread, Biscuit hit the nail on the head for me.
        A master plumber running a full crew, estimating, pulling permits, dealing with GC's, bids, stock pricing, payroll, personel and hiring/firing hasn't time to have a 2nd year apprentice tell him he thinks there's a better way to do the work.
        Another IMPORTANT point of mention, we all have our own codes, I wouldn't begin to tell Aaron what is right in fear that I teach him improper code for his state.
        Crawl, walk, run...in that order.
        I think most of us here went through that process.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Job Related Question With Picture

          Originally posted by biscuit View Post
          Plumbdog,

          I give some of my guys a lot of grief about compression stops, I think its taking the easy way out. But I am a engineer, not a plumber and my guys stand behind their work and will typically use compression stops unless the specifications call for otherwise.

          I got a lot to learn, but I will never be a plumber. My background is more on the HVAC side of things but I have really come to appreciate plumbers and what they do more so every day.

          Regards,
          I've now read a post by Utah and you (an engineer) against compression angle stops. What I haven't read is a reason for not using them. Either of you please respond.
          the dog

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Job Related Question With Picture

            Originally posted by plumbdog10 View Post
            I've now read a post by Utah and you (an engineer) against compression angle stops. What I haven't read is a reason for not using them. Either of you please respond.
            I don’t know that there is anything in particular wrong with compression stops. I have had my share of service calls where the compression stop had popped off or the stop was leaking due to an over tightened nut & ferrule but that has more to do with the installer. I guess it has more to do with the cleaner look of the back of the stop tight against the escutcheon. That is not to say you can’t do the same with a compression stop but most plumbers leave enough copper to change the stop later. If it is any conciliation we were also the last shop to quit using chrome plated spaghetti.

            Mark
            "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

            I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Job Related Question With Picture

              Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
              I don’t know that there is anything in particular wrong with compression stops. I have had my share of service calls where the compression stop had popped off or the stop was leaking due to an over tightened nut & ferrule but that has more to do with the installer. I guess it has more to do with the cleaner look of the back of the stop tight against the escutcheon. That is not to say you can’t do the same with a compression stop but most plumbers leave enough copper to change the stop later. If it is any conciliation we were also the last shop to quit using chrome plated spaghetti.

              Mark
              Very rarely(maybe 2%) do I have the copper gap.Once you get accustomed the distance your cut needs to be from the finished.I was told on my first stop "two fingers".Still think of that moment after thousands of stops.Why do so many cut long.No contractor I know accepts long copper on exposed areas.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Job Related Question With Picture

                If I use a compression stop I like to leave 1/2' exposed so when the valve does fail the guy who has to deal with it next will be able to get a puller behind the ferrule.I have seen many stops changed where someone couldn't remove the existing nut and ferrule. If I had to I could dremmel it off but there are a lot of plumbers who can"t afford every luxury tool.And the copper that is exposed ,if any,would be polished/sanded.

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                • #23
                  Re: Job Related Question With Picture

                  Originally posted by apf View Post
                  If I use a compression stop I like to leave 1/2' exposed so when the valve does fail the guy who has to deal with it next will be able to get a puller behind the ferrule.I have seen many stops changed where someone couldn't remove the existing nut and ferrule. If I had to I could dremmel it off but there are a lot of plumbers who can"t afford every luxury tool.And the copper that is exposed ,if any,would be polished/sanded.
                  I'm not even a service plumber and I have a angle stop puller.It is a sad day when the techy enters the house,now he doesn't have any tools

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Job Related Question With Picture

                    I have yet to encounter a ferrule I couldn't get off with a pair of Channellocks. I usually use my #426, apply a little pressure on the ferrule, pull toward myself (left forefinger and thumb on the jaws) with a little clockwise rotary motion -- sort of threading it off of the 1/2" hard copper. I have never needed to pull a ferrule off of a piece of soft copper, but I imagine it may not be possible in some cases where the ferrule has distorted the copper so much that the O.D. of the copper and the I.D. of the ferrule just won't allow this method of removal.

                    Bruce

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Job Related Question With Picture

                      Originally posted by apf View Post
                      If I use a compression stop I like to leave 1/2' exposed so when the valve does fail the guy who has to deal with it next will be able to get a puller behind the ferrule.I have seen many stops changed where someone couldn't remove the existing nut and ferrule.
                      totally agree. but i like to cut the copper off at and 1 3/4 so if there is any problems the is room to work. but the demal idea works or even a tiny hack saw, if you can get in there. I dont do res, just commercial. We have a service guy who does all service, but when we go to remodels, i just use a small hack saw i got from Ferguson and it works great.
                      5 Super Wal-Marts down and none to go.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Job Related Question With Picture

                        Originally posted by plumbdog10 View Post
                        I've now read a post by Utah and you (an engineer) against compression angle stops. What I haven't read is a reason for not using them. Either of you please respond.
                        Personal choice, I won't use them on any hard drawn.
                        In a commercial restroom with heavier traffic, there's much greater chance of impact.
                        Picture a guy with his 5 yr old, turns to use a urinal and lil' Joey yanks on a feed, spins it very slightly.
                        Slow drip creates $10K in damage over the weekend 3 months after finish.
                        Another point already made - spacing.
                        If the brass is subject to the wrong mineral content in the water and corrodes too quickly, replacement of the stop/compression nut means having to removes the old ferrule as opposed to sweating off the old valve.
                        Just my opinion.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Job Related Question With Picture

                          I always carried a couple of pullers for the nuts and ferrules but in a pinch a handle puller and a PP lav stem will do the trick as well.

                          Mark
                          "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                          I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Job Related Question With Picture

                            Originally posted by plumbdog10 View Post
                            I've now read a post by Utah and you (an engineer) against compression angle stops. What I haven't read is a reason for not using them. Either of you please respond.
                            I dont have a real problem with compression stops so to speak, its a personal preference and I do write them out of my specifications on design/build jobs.

                            I have seen quite a few that the nut split from being overtightened or not tight engough and the stop blew off under high pressure.

                            I also think a properly soldered one (length of pipe correct) makes for a nicer looking job.

                            Again, I am not knocking them, I probalby have a few hundred in my warehouse at this moment.

                            I will say this, my guys will not install a Zurn compression stop, they seem to have had a lot of trouble with them over the years. They only use brasscraft.

                            Regards,

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Job Related Question With Picture

                              doing production work for 15 years, the majority of the stops we used were compression. infact they were the 1 piece not my choice on the 1 piece, but the co's choice.

                              if i had to use ips threaded stops, i would have never been able to install an average of 400 a day. a compression stop only takes seconds to properly tighten with the proper ratcheting open box flare nut wrench.

                              i've never had a stop blow off, but i have cracked a few nuts. i always pre prepped the stops with dope or bowl wax on the compression thread to ease the friction of tightening. i also cut the copper at the correct length to give the estucion a finish look.

                              now on commercial specs. we did use both 1/2'' and 3/8'' ips stops. the slow part is carrying the assortment of brass nipples and preventing the wall insulation from blocking the opening. so this was a lot slower process. plus i had to then carry all the cap ups back to the shop.

                              as far as removing a nut and ferrule, no problem with a good puller. type l stubs are eaiser as the ferrule doesn't bite as deep as type m copper does.


                              rick.
                              phoebe it is

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Job Related Question With Picture

                                Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                                if i had to use ips threaded stops, i would have never been able to install an average of 400 a day.
                                rick.

                                Is this a misprint or are you showing off?

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