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  • #31
    Re: Latest 'Custom' Water Heater, Pictures.

    I'm still trying to understand the upside-down "hanger" on the relief drain. First person who leans against is throws the whole thing out of whack. is this a common practice? I was unaware you could use threaded rod hangers in this manner.

    Here, we wouldn't be required to pipe the relief valve to the sump on a basement floor. Of course, one assumes that the floor slopes to a drain . . .

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    • #32
      Re: Latest 'Custom' Water Heater, Pictures.

      Originally posted by Herk View Post
      I'm still trying to understand the upside-down "hanger" on the relief drain. First person who leans against is throws the whole thing out of whack. is this a common practice? I was unaware you could use threaded rod hangers in this manner.

      Here, we wouldn't be required to pipe the relief valve to the sump on a basement floor. Of course, one assumes that the floor slopes to a drain . . .
      I know what you're talking about Herk.When I first started out in plumbing,if the W/H was in the garage all a guy had to do was get the drain down to within 24" but higher than 6".Now they say their is a possibilty that someone could be scalded or damage to garages and the items stored in them,so now(15 years ago at least) it was required by code to drain them to the outside.

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      • #33
        Re: Latest 'Custom' Water Heater, Pictures.

        Scott- If you take a look at the photo I added a few posts after the main post, you can see the shut off valve to the heater. It may look out of reach, but it's not.

        The point of the unions is so when the water heater goes years down the line, it's faster and easier to install a new one.

        Herk- You'd have to try to break that to actually break it. It's better than just leaving the pipe to support itself.
        Proud To Be Union!!

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        • #34
          Re: Latest 'Custom' Water Heater, Pictures.

          [quote=Scott K;122161]Where is the shut off valve on the cold?

          What's the point of the unions?

          No Vacuum breaker -I assume it's a code thing...

          No expansion tank - I think you mentioned something about the design of the tank. But out of curiousity if there is some type of bladder already in this tank, in what ways do these tanks "go"?" Is the bladder the main thing that fails first and then the tank is toast? If so I'd install an expansion tank anyways. The Expansion tank is there to protect the hot water tank and to prevent the T & P from going off all the time if you have a closed system. I would worry about that bladder inside the tank.
          This was just a prank they were trying to play on me and it almost worked

          Didn't the tank come equipped with dielectric nipples poking out of the tank? I would have just used those - brass nipples can be pricey at times.

          Also, there doesn't appear to be an air gap either but you said it had something to do with the photos?

          So when are we gonna see some pictures of a wall mounted condensing boiler with a primary/secondary system with an indirect fired hot water tank and boiler piping to the baseboards or radiant floors?

          I'm doing one of these installs this week. I'll post up some photos but no ticky tacky comments please

          Don't worry about me - I'm currently building a geothermal mechanical room with boiler back up. I'll try and have some pictures soon when I'm just about done.I'll have some questions for you when you do[/quote]

          The peanut gallery has spoken

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          • #35
            Re: Latest 'Custom' Water Heater, Pictures.

            Very good work ARRON 91 ! !

            just one small thing that nobody has mentioned probably because very few plumbers do it. ? ?

            did you fill out the warrenty papers on the side of the water heater ?
            something you should get into the habit of
            it helps the H. O. to have handy in the future
            if they call for service !
            plus gives you a place to leave you CO. name and phone # for the H. O.

            JERRYMAC MASTERPLUMBER

            JERRYMAC
            E-MAILJERRYMAC777@GMAIL.COM
            CALIF. LIC. PLBG,HEAT,DRAINS,ELECTRIC,WATER HEATER, BOILER, POOL AND SPA HEATER
            FIRE SPRINKLER CONTRACTOR,
            SINCE JAN. 1989

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            • #36
              ? for NHMaster

              Why would you use dielectrics to go between brass and copper. Dielectrics are not required by code in my state. They are the kiss of death in most of the small towns around here. Around here, a heater will last a lot longer without them. Aaron, nice job.

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              • #37
                Re: Latest 'Custom' Water Heater, Pictures.

                You can do it too.Just don't get the pipe so hot the solder goes running down it like water.Practice "torch control".Try to attain a more uniform fitting temperature with a lower flame.Heat the pipe an inch or so from the fitting momentarily as you are bringing it up to tempurature.After soldering there is a temperature that doesn't flash the flux off the outside of the fitting yet removes discolorations,too cool and it only darkens the solder without cleaning the fitting.Also I use a rag that has a lot of flux on it from cleaning multiple fittings prior for the shiniest fittings.A new clean rag does not work the best for me.For the newbies That have worked with me I tell them they can buff with steel wool or Gear Junkies favorite "Scotchbrite"

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                • #38
                  Re: Latest 'Custom' Water Heater, Pictures.

                  a surefire way to prevent excess solder.

                  solder will not stick to copper that doesn't have flux.

                  wipe any excess flux that runs down the tubing while heating.

                  of course proper heat control and technique is important to. along with solder the bottom joint prior to the top joint and not more solder than necessary.

                  if all else fails, there's always propress and sharkbite

                  rick.
                  phoebe it is

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                  • #39
                    Re: Latest 'Custom' Water Heater, Pictures.

                    For vertical visible applications only, prep your joint normally and then draw a line an 1/8" under the joint with a med carpenter pencil. The solder will stop at the pencil line. I also don't use sandpaper anymore. Get a scotchbrite pad (grey or med) in the paint section of hd. Last forever and does a better job. Shines the joint after you wipe the excess flux with a rag.
                    I'm still on the same one after an estimated 150- 1" joints. I still use a wire brush in a drill for the inside. Only use slow speed for this one. It'll heat the fitting up.
                    Buy cheap, buy twice.

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                    • #40
                      Re: Latest 'Custom' Water Heater, Pictures.

                      I think we all have our technique for soldering...it's one of the first "important" tasks we get to perform as apprentices, so I think it's kinda sentimental or even a lil' superstitious (after your first leak it is anyway).
                      I heat the fitting up close on the flame till I know it's almost hot enough to melt solder, then back the flame away to avoid roasting the flux inside but keep it hot enough to maintain the temperature.
                      On vertical fittings, I heat the pipe first to get the excess flux to run down the pipe...then wipe it away before soldering.
                      Bens pencil idea I've heard before...and I will be trying it.
                      There are two reason I focus the heat on the fitting, solder chases flux, flux chases heat....and (I've been ragged for this, but ..) the fitting will naturally swell from thermal expansion, once the solder is applied I put my damp rag on the fitting only...avoiding the seams so the solder doesn't turn black.
                      The fitting shrinks, tightens around the solder and the less heated pipe.
                      Once the fitting is cooled enough, I wipe it down while it's still somewhat hot to remove the burnt flux.
                      Cleans up much better if the fitting is still hot...but not hot enough to blacken the seams.
                      I WON'T say I never get leaks, but usually the leaks I get on copper are the ones I know may likely leak...wet pipe.

                      Also, there are alotta guys that don't bother to clean 1/2" fittings...it's all good until you demo an older copper job and see how easily those joints pull apart, or leaks that mysteriously appear 6 months after soldering.
                      You can always tell those joints the way the pipe pulls out of the fitting surrounded with solder, yet no solder stays in the fitting.

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                      • #41
                        Re: Latest 'Custom' Water Heater, Pictures.

                        Ever try that flux they sell at trade shows. You know the stuff that you don't need to clean even the blackest copper. Ha


                        sigpic

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                        • #42
                          Re: Latest 'Custom' Water Heater, Pictures.

                          Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                          I think we all have our technique for soldering...it's one of the first "important" tasks we get to perform as apprentices, so I think it's kinda sentimental or even a lil' superstitious (after your first leak it is anyway).
                          I heat the fitting up close on the flame till I know it's almost hot enough to melt solder, then back the flame away to avoid roasting the flux inside but keep it hot enough to maintain the temperature.
                          On vertical fittings, I heat the pipe first to get the excess flux to run down the pipe...then wipe it away before soldering.
                          Bens pencil idea I've heard before...and I will be trying it.
                          There are two reason I focus the heat on the fitting, solder chases flux, flux chases heat....and (I've been ragged for this, but ..) the fitting will naturally swell from thermal expansion, once the solder is applied I put my damp rag on the fitting only...avoiding the seams so the solder doesn't turn black.
                          The fitting shrinks, tightens around the solder and the less heated pipe.
                          Once the fitting is cooled enough, I wipe it down while it's still somewhat hot to remove the burnt flux.
                          Cleans up much better if the fitting is still hot...but not hot enough to blacken the seams.
                          I WON'T say I never get leaks, but usually the leaks I get on copper are the ones I know may likely leak...wet pipe.

                          Also, there are alotta guys that don't bother to clean 1/2" fittings...it's all good until you demo an older copper job and see how easily those joints pull apart, or leaks that mysteriously appear 6 months after soldering.
                          You can always tell those joints the way the pipe pulls out of the fitting surrounded with solder, yet no solder stays in the fitting.
                          Proper soldering technique 101. Great post, i know what you mean about fitting barely soldered...
                          Water Heater Reviews & Water Heater Information

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                          • #43
                            Re: Latest 'Custom' Water Heater, Pictures.

                            Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                            Ever try that flux they sell at trade shows. You know the stuff that you don't need to clean even the blackest copper. Ha


                            Seems like every Tom, Dick and Harry wants to sell something that creates the illusion that soldering can be made easier.
                            No insult intended to those who use them, but Sharkbites & propress strike me that way.
                            Maybe I'll eat my words in 15 years when copper soldering is obsolete, but for now I stay the course with tried, tested & true.

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                            • #44
                              Re: Latest 'Custom' Water Heater, Pictures.

                              We looked into the pro press and on the surface it seems like a good tool. I can see where making repairs to pipes with water in them could be handy. The problem I have with it is the cost of the fittings. That and the unbelievable price of copper has driven most of us in the north east to go pex. To the degree that all of our service trucks only carry one 10' stick of 1/2, 3/4, and 1" on the truck. Any more is asking for theft. The other factor with the pro-press is the cost of the tool. Then after talking it over we kinda decided that we've been repairing and soldering copper for years without too many incidents so why spend the cash. We bought another Ridgid 300 instead.
                              sigpic

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                              • #45
                                Re: Latest 'Custom' Water Heater, Pictures.

                                Push-fit drain fittings already exist in commercial (stainless steel) but there's a company out there trying to get a patent for making DWV fittings that are push-fit.


                                Will eliminate glue and cleaner VOC exposures


                                Basically a takeoff of gasketed SDR pipe and service weight gaskets for cast iron hub.


                                Hubs will be deeper, the tool will probably take brute strength to deflect the spider clip and pull it off, remove tension.


                                Think Fluidmaster Waxless toilet seal, that idea.


                                You heard it here first! EPA has a hand in this as well.


                                Now how easy do you think DIY plumbing will be?
                                Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

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