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Refuse to work on it? Call city? (T&P uphill)

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  • #16
    Re: Refuse to work on it? Call city? (T&P uphill)

    I would like to hear what Utah thinks of this thread.
    THE GLASS IS ALWAYS HALF FULL

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    • #17
      Re: Refuse to work on it? Call city? (T&P uphill)

      Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
      Our code only requires that we run the T&P outlet to 12" off the floor so a bucket can be placed under it in the event it starts to leak.
      Anything on or above a finished floor requires a safety pan with a drain.

      Any existing plumbing, like a heater on a 2nd floor with no safety is "existing" plumbing, I'll mention it, but if they can't afford it it's ther choice as long as they are INFORMED...my job is done.
      The wet spots on his ceiling are his responsibility later on, because he knowingly avoided the repair/alteration.
      However, if I see a heater with a plug in the T&P, I have NO choice but to INFORM them of the extreme danger of the set up & SHUT IT DOWN!
      I have shut a boiler off that had been plugged at the relief...I heard the boiler kick on right as I noticed the plug & immediately killed the power.
      Homeowner had no idea how dangerous that was...he just thought he was giving a leaky valve an innocent band-aid.
      I had the boiler off for as long as it took to quote him a price, then disconnect his indirect water heater that had a coil leaking into the convection loop inside that was backfeeding & overpressurizing the boiler.

      There's a line between being accountable & being charitable.
      I have had occasion to shut off a heater that had a T&P that was ceased partially open...told the homeowner that letting it drip into a sump and pretending there was no problem wasn't a good idea.
      Homeowner decided I was too expensive once I quoted a price. ( as if I was gonna add it onto the work I'd already done for free)

      I killed the gas valve in front of the homeowner, told them I was legally obligated to shut it off before I left..got my check & went home, Fairly sure he was going to turn it back on...that was his INFORMED decision.

      This is basically my same policy. This make sense to me.
      THE GLASS IS ALWAYS HALF FULL

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      • #18
        Re: Refuse to work on it? Call city? (T&P uphill)

        We run into this situation a lot in the heating trade. Code requires us to red tag and shut off an unsafe appliance. At that point the owner is required to sign the tag, acknowledging the problem. Then we submit the tag to the fire department and they take it from there.
        sigpic

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        • #19
          Re: Refuse to work on it? Call city? (T&P uphill)

          Who pissed in that inspector's Wheatie's?

          Did you, or any of your guys (if you have any) happen to piss this inspector off?
          Proud To Be Union!!

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          • #20
            Re: Refuse to work on it? Call city? (T&P uphill)

            Originally posted by JCsPlumbing
            Hi Aaron. I remember those impressive solder joints on your last WH install.

            To answer your question-100% absolutely not. I'm always completely professional and respectfual to all inspectors. Never went nuts and cursed somebody out or anything like that. But things like this come close. Other plumbers always assume as you do because maybe they don't have to deal with it in there area. I know it sounds unreal but it's everyday. Got many war stories like this.
            Yeah, North Carolina is getting really strict. It can be a pain in the a-s-s but overall I am glad, hopefully it will bring up standards and force out the fly-by-nights...at least I hope so.
            Water Heater Reviews & Water Heater Information

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            • #21
              Re: Refuse to work on it? Call city? (T&P uphill)

              Originally posted by DUNBAR View Post
              Remember that code violations that are a clear and present danger to the property owner are not something that will hold up in a court of law no matter how many signatures you have.

              A jury will sense you did it for monetary reasons to complete the work completely avoiding the seriousness of the situation and giving the perspective that it is "okay" to continue.


              In Ohio, T&P absolutely cannot run uphill, ever.


              In Kentucky, with the T&P running downhill, you can 90 over once, then again going vertical with a 1/8" hole drilled in that last turn of direction. Once that line goes horizontal, it must have fall heading to it's destination, no more ups and downs.

              I hope soon they abolish this standard because that hole drilled in the 90 can clog, hold water into the spring assembly of the T&P and prohibit its function.

              Water heater without a floor drain is what causes this situation, I have to do one this week that I have to indirect the T&P discharge into a laundry tub with a Air Gapped distance from the flood level rim. Why this $300,000 home doesn't have a floor drain is retarded, especially on a hard sloping hill at the end of this subdivision. Idiots!
              I appreciate your opinion and do not disagree totally. I think it is our responsibility to notify and protect our client/public from hazardous plumbing conditions. Although I also do not believe every code violation is life threatening. In the case of a none threatening code violation like lets say the absence of a C/O, I notify the customer and explain to them the benefit of a C/O. Such as the ability to clean the line better,safety (not climbing on there roof), and cost. If the client still chooses they do not want a C/O out, then I happily charge them more to clean the line. I the case of a gas leak I definitely cover them and my self by turning the gas off and notifying the utility company ( unless they have me fix it). As far as going before a jury, I do not foresee a T&P valve going up in elevation coming before a jury or court. None the less I do believe as contractors we do need to always be on the look out for such things. We also need to trust our instinct, Many years ago a women sued the company I worked for over using Pine Sol in her house. The owner settled out of court for several thousand dollars. The tech on the job asked if he could refuse service to the women . The owner not trusting the techs instinct had him do the work anyhow.
              Last edited by Crappy days; 03-03-2008, 10:15 PM.
              THE GLASS IS ALWAYS HALF FULL

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              • #22
                Re: Refuse to work on it? Call city? (T&P uphill)

                If I go to a job and there is an illegal item which was legal at the time of the installation I would note it on the invoice and recommend to the owner it be brought up to Code.

                If I go to a job and there is an illegal item which was illegal when it was installed I would note it on the invoice and tell the owner it needs to be brought up to Code.

                If I go to a job and there is an illegal item and the owner wants me to replace it with like I would turn the job down.

                In all of the above scenarios if I believed there was a threat to life or property I would shut the equipment down and the owner would either have to pay to fix it or call someone else to turn it back on.

                As professionals we are held to a higher standard and it doesn't matter what you write on your invoice if somebody gets hurt.

                Mark
                "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

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