Announcement Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.
Last Water Heater Replacement Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse
X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Last Water Heater Replacement

    I hope.








    This was a electric to powervent gas water heater conversion along with the addition of a water softener.

    Criticism is welcome.


    I'll point out that yes, I have an extension cord cable tied going over to this water heater as a temporary to operate the softener and the PV heater; I properly installed a capped off box for the existing 220 feed for the electric that was serving the unit, up in the joist space and clearly marked at the panel and blank cover. The customer is having an electrician run a new circuit to feed these two units.

    Yes, that T&P is not mounted/anchored to the wall and that piece holding the distance up for an Air Gap tolerance for both the softener and T&P discharge is a soldered copper stub.

    The "floor drain" in this room is a hole drilled in the floor; an inspector wouldn't know that and would count it as a workable drain but since I'll be a plumbing inspector someday, I'd say that I made the right choice catching a nearby fixture.

    It was my choice to raise the softener; didn't like sending that discharge up and then out even though the mfg allows for 8' of height @ 40psi.

    There is no small tube for the brine tank overflow, I don't know why they don't supply that with the unit.


    That is a check valve between the softener and the heater, it's less than 10 linear feet of piping between the two.


    Here's why I won't do another one of these, again in one day:

    This took 9 hours *really 10* and more pain meds than I care to mention. IT SIMPLY IS NOT WORTH IT knowing I could of made just as much money being in 3 or 4 driveways. (Charged $650 labor, which included less than 20' of copper pipe and fittings, $25 of black iron pipe and fittings, valve and DUF's)

    It simply was a job that a healthy person could of completed in 4-6 hours tops, not no freaking 10. The more physical pain I'm in, the slower I go.

    What's great is I never had to lift the new water heater or the old one, same with the water softener except when I had to put it up on blocks. The customer had a $8/hour guy that did the grunt work, including drilling the hole out of the house for the 2" vent for the heater.

    I pretty much was hung over friday because of the amount of medicine I had to take to get through this job......

    this work just isn't in my best interest, seriously.

    By the time I'm 45 I think all I'm going to hire myself out to do is Delta 2 hdle faucet rebuilds,

    flapper and trip lever replacements

    faucet aerator replacements.


    Fire away folks! This is your one and only chance as I'm hanging up my expertise on this one talent I have in plumbing.......I physically can't do it anymore. I should of charged a grand for my efforts, not $650. He bought all materials with exception to what I came with.
    Last edited by DUNBAR PLUMBING; 03-08-2008, 04:10 AM.
    Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

  • #2
    I am my biggest critic

    There is a huge WRONG in that picture, 2 of them actually that I didn't pick up.


    That cold water isolation valve needs to be after the check valve as it's solely for the heater at that point


    AND


    I didn't create a loop that covers the cold water throughout the entire house. Idiot! Looks like all I have to do is turn that 90 before the check valve into a tee, go up and connect to main going towards the camera, cap that existing tee to close the loop.

    Unscrew that dielectric and cut that incoming pipe, sweat a ball valve in less than 10 minutes tops.

    Anchor that T&P to the wall twice and buy a roll of that clear tubing to catch the overflow for the brine tank.


    Going back on myself will earn me brownie points for catching my mistake without having the customer notify me first.


    Between the two I have an hour's work to go back to and make it right. I'll take a picture to show the rework.

    Just proves that drugs are bad m'kay?
    Last edited by DUNBAR PLUMBING; 03-08-2008, 04:32 AM.
    Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Last Water Heater Replacement

      I don't care that it took you 10 hours Dunbar, it looks good and that's all that counts in my book

      But I'd be fired on Monday if after 10 hours on the job I brought back only $650

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: I am my biggest critic

        Nice Job, just 2 things that i have questions about, First where I plumb I could not run the T&P and dump it into a laundry tub with an air gap, They would say that a person could be washing their hands or working in laundry sink when T&P discharges and could scald that person. 2nd I did not see a bypass on the softener? I just put one in for service reasons. Anyways it still looks like a nice clean job, Keep up the good work.
        ________
        FORD MODEL AA PICTURE
        Last edited by TOPDAWG; 02-24-2011, 05:37 PM.
        Mike

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Last Water Heater Replacement

          Is that a 3/4" stop and waste valve on the supply.? If so the code says no, no. It has to be a full open, full port valve. Either ball or gate.
          sigpic

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Last Water Heater Replacement

            I like to use 3" on PV exhausts when possible just to be safe, but often it isn't possible.
            Also brass fittings off the dielectrics, for all the wasted dielectrics I've seen caked with corrosion when tied to copper.
            It's a few bucks more, but it's a compulsion I just gotta feed.
            Also vacuum breakers, we instinctively use them here, it's still code.
            Good to see the drip tee & clean soldering.
            $650 for 9 hours is rough, I can see why you are trying to get away from water heaters.
            I'm just a couple of years under you in age, I understand the back pains well.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Last Water Heater Replacement

              Ducky, do you guys still have to install the vac breaker even if the dip tube has one already. They ammended the upc up here to cover that. Good call on the dielectric unions also, I see that all the time.
              sigpic

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Last Water Heater Replacement

                Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                Ducky, do you guys still have to install the vac breaker even if the dip tube has one already. They ammended the upc up here to cover that. Good call on the dielectric unions also, I see that all the time.
                Unless something has recently changed, yes.
                I know, I know...we're in the dark ages.
                Just had a chat with a licensed friend in NH about it.
                I thought NH was IPC?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Last Water Heater Replacement

                  Where I'm from $600 for a days labor is not bad at all for someone who earns their money honestly. Thats here in the Midwest though where the cost of living isnt near what it is on the east and left coasts.

                  Looks good Dunbar. I assume theres J hooks on the vent that dont show up in the picture.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Last Water Heater Replacement

                    Looks good Dunbar, you are hard on yourself, just like me!!

                    When I do something, I always feel I could have done better

                    Don't feel bad about the back issue, I am in very bad lower back pain because I had a 1 piece toilet up a walk street and up to the second floor master, and down with the old 1 piece.

                    No med's though Only Ibprofin, hopefully it will go away soon. I am 29, had this problem for many years already when I do something stupid.

                    And people wonder why we charge what we charge......their job may have only lasted 1-9 hrs, but the pain lasts for days.
                    sigpic

                    Robert

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: I am my biggest critic

                      Originally posted by TOPDAWG View Post
                      Nice Job, just 2 things that i have questions about, First where I plumb I could not run the T&P and dump it into a laundry tub with an air gap, They would say that a person could be washing their hands or working in laundry sink when T&P discharges and could scald that person. 2nd I did not see a bypass on the softener? I just put one in for service reasons. Anyways it still looks like a nice clean job, Keep up the good work.
                      Yeah, I am pretty sure that T&P discharge is illegal too because of scalding potential.
                      Water Heater Reviews & Water Heater Information

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: I am my biggest critic

                        Originally posted by Service Guy View Post
                        Yeah, I am pretty sure that T&P discharge is illegal too because of scalding potential.
                        Careful there, whats code in one jurisdiction will be taboo in another.
                        I've had my share of fiesty debates on right & wrong.
                        We do T&P outlets striktly as a straight drop to 12" off the floor to minimize obstruction to flow.
                        When it's over a finish floor we use a safety pan with a drain.
                        If I were to pipe a T&P with offsets to the outside of a building or to a floor drain, an inspector would have me remove it and probably scrutinize the rest of my work for concern over my technique.
                        Doesn't mean your way is better than mine or vise versa...we all do what we're supposed to do and stick with our code.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Last Water Heater Replacement

                          Thanks for all the kind words and criticisms. Like I said, the time it took to do this, along with having to go back just proves that the body isn't in the same horse race with the brain.

                          Originally posted by plumberscrack View Post
                          I don't care that it took you 10 hours Dunbar, it looks good and that's all that counts in my book

                          But I'd be fired on Monday if after 10 hours on the job I brought back only $650
                          That's right, and I get employees I'm firing them if it takes them 10 hours plus a callback to do it right.

                          Originally posted by TOPDAWG View Post
                          Nice Job, just 2 things that i have questions about, First where I plumb I could not run the T&P and dump it into a laundry tub with an air gap, They would say that a person could be washing their hands or working in laundry sink when T&P discharges and could scald that person. 2nd I did not see a bypass on the softener? I just put one in for service reasons. Anyways it still looks like a nice clean job, Keep up the good work.

                          Code in my state allows indirect into a laundry tub when all other options are exhausted. I "could" run up and out with drilling a hole in the last 90 before going up but even with that being code, it's a bad rule/permission.

                          What I am going to do is extend that farther to the back right corner of that tub. The other option is turning out a standpipe that comes off that laundry tub drain which would be extensive.

                          I totally agree of the possibility of getting scalded in the event of failure. I wish I had a 2" standpipe for the washing machine; I'd install a 2" by 3" bell and indirect there.....but I'm probably too high for that equation at that point. This is where if you think about it.....is it better to just run to the floor?


                          That WaterBoss has a built in bypass. I've been installing them for years, and at one time you had to build your own bypass.

                          Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                          Is that a 3/4" stop and waste valve on the supply.? If so the code says no, no. It has to be a full open, full port valve. Either ball or gate.

                          Yes, those stop and waste valves are code in my state which is total BS because the new construction plumbers only install them because they are cheap, that's it. Should be a ball valve for sure. Was you serious about a gate? Those valves keep me employed when the guides get calcified, customer will drop the gate as soon as 3 years old because it won't slide back up.

                          Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                          I like to use 3" on PV exhausts when possible just to be safe, but often it isn't possible.
                          Also brass fittings off the dielectrics, for all the wasted dielectrics I've seen caked with corrosion when tied to copper.
                          It's a few bucks more, but it's a compulsion I just gotta feed.
                          Also vacuum breakers, we instinctively use them here, it's still code.
                          Good to see the drip tee & clean soldering.
                          $650 for 9 hours is rough, I can see why you are trying to get away from water heaters.
                          I'm just a couple of years under you in age, I understand the back pains well.
                          Those bradford white's allow for 2" or 3" applications, they strongly enforce the 3" application when going a long distance.

                          On the dielectrics, I can't remove those factory installed nipples as it will waste the warranty on that heater, but are you saying that they finally make an all brass dielectric? I found a 1/2" by 3/4 MIP Dielectric online a few weeks ago but I could not find a 3/4" sweat by 3/4" FIP Dielectric union. They are junk and they will clog up considerably fast. I try to thread those down as far as I can on the nipples as the less exposed galvy, the better.

                          What I did on this job is not making money. I could of been in 3 driveways, been efficient because with back problems you can hide your hardship if you keep transitioning from truck to job, job to floor, floor to laying under a sink or what have you.

                          Put me on a concrete floor for 10 hours straight, taking tons of medicine to bypass the pain, I slow down greatly and make a bunch of mistakes like showing above. To the untrained eye though it looks good.

                          Originally posted by Ruudacguy View Post
                          Where I'm from $600 for a days labor is not bad at all for someone who earns their money honestly. Thats here in the Midwest though where the cost of living isnt near what it is on the east and left coasts.

                          Looks good Dunbar. I assume theres J hooks on the vent that dont show up in the picture.
                          I used 1 poly strap towards the 90 going out and I know I need 2 on that setup, one closer to the heater (forgot that too) On the strapping of the expansion tank they require metal strapping which I did to support it, even though it's upright and vertical (that code revision in my area was created by me after complaining to a room of plumbing inspectors ) and I can either J-hook that or use more of that plastic strapping.

                          I "like" the plastic strapping over J-hooks because the J-hooks will tick when that pipe expands. Should I J-hook it? No way that is in the code book, it will just give specs for DWV spacing requirements on PVC.

                          Originally posted by westcoastplumber View Post
                          Looks good Dunbar, you are hard on yourself, just like me!!

                          When I do something, I always feel I could have done better

                          Don't feel bad about the back issue, I am in very bad lower back pain because I had a 1 piece toilet up a walk street and up to the second floor master, and down with the old 1 piece.

                          No med's though Only Ibprofin, hopefully it will go away soon. I am 29, had this problem for many years already when I do something stupid.

                          And people wonder why we charge what we charge......their job may have only lasted 1-9 hrs, but the pain lasts for days.
                          You and DB definitely sound like you know what I'm going through, and it's pointless to even do these installs because I'm just not physically cut out for it. I injured my back, not my brain and if you asked me to install that softener by itself, no problem. If you asked me to replace the water heater, electric for electric, no problem.

                          Ask me to do all of it one day including the gas line, venting for the heater and the whole mix, I'm not the right guy for the job, entirely.

                          My work detail is set up to be a problem solver; get in, get out, don't do a lot in one place. Customers sometimes cannot even tell I'm struggling with this work practice.

                          I will honestly say, my calls towards the end of the day take longer than the calls I first start out doing. I'm bleeding the equation out in full context that I really need to pull out of this profession and hire help, deal with the headaches on another level.

                          That's hard to do when you enjoy the hands-on aspect of this trade so much. I like the physical work as it hides the growing arthritis that is covering my body and if I stop working, I'm going to be a cripple a lot sooner. That's a fact.



                          Originally posted by Service Guy View Post
                          Yeah, I am pretty sure that T&P discharge is illegal too because of scalding potential.
                          I'd love to stick that down in the back corner to within 2" of the bottom of that tub but that crosses the line of understanding knowing I'm a licensed backflow tester in my area. I mentioned taking it the back corner of that tub as it still allows this in my state's code. It's one of those things that I agree is not right on the premace of the "what if" scenario.

                          We ended up with 15" of snow last night, I pumped $100 of fuel into my truck yesterday and apparently after they just filled the tanks at the gas station.

                          My truck lost all horsepower within 7 minutes after leaving the station, I was able to pull it right into a garage that can't work on it till monday morning.

                          Of course, the $8/hour workers/managers at the gas station state that there is absolutely no problems with their fuel.

                          When I get my paperwork from the garage and the nearing $400 bill for this fiasco, I'm going over their heads to corporate with certified letters to 3 different people so they all know that we're playing hardball by my rules, not theirs.

                          I'm already at 3 service calls right now, not including what else comes in this weekend. What they don't know won't hurt them; Both are waiting for me till I'm mobile, one I fixed a powervent malfunctioning over the phone. (remove snow from exhaust opening) More brownie points from an already satisfied customer, an army recruiter.


                          If this above fuel problem happened to a family that lives paycheck to paycheck, this gas company could create disaster for people who can't afford these unexpected issues. Terrible....
                          Last edited by DUNBAR PLUMBING; 03-08-2008, 01:31 PM.
                          Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Last Water Heater Replacement

                            Hiring some good help may be just what you need. If you still like being 'in the field' you could just hire a grunt/gopher to carry stuff and help you with the more physical aspects of the job.
                            Water Heater Reviews & Water Heater Information

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Last Water Heater Replacement

                              Originally posted by JCsPlumbing
                              What Did The Inspector Say About The Job?

                              Hasn't been inspected yet, thank goodness. Saves me $35 and embarrassment.



                              I really hope I keep my word stating it's my last one; I need to graduate from this moment and call it an experience, and that I don't have to endanger my health anymore.


                              I just goosed this call because the owner said he'd have someone do all the heavy lifting.
                              Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X