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  • #16
    Re: Are You Qualified?

    I know 3 great plumbers who couldnt pass the masters test because they were not good test takers, but these are/were some of the best plumbers you ever seen.
    If they couldn't even pass the test, how should the state know they are qualified to be contractors? Contracting is not just plumbing, its also business.
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    • #17
      Re: Are You Qualified?

      I know a guy that has his license for 25 years, and I am in now way impresed with his work, his knowledge or anything. He is pretty much just a hack.

      Nothing means anything anymore.
      sigpic

      Robert

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      • #18
        Re: Are You Qualified?

        Originally posted by westcoastplumber View Post
        I know a guy that has his license for 25 years, and I am in now way impresed with his work, his knowledge or anything. He is pretty much just a hack.

        Nothing means anything anymore.
        Yeah but Rick is still ok in my book

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        • #19
          Re: Are You Qualified?

          Originally posted by Service Guy View Post
          If they couldn't even pass the test, how should the state know they are qualified to be contractors? Contracting is not just plumbing, its also business.
          You have no argument with me, I agree you MUST pass the masters test in order to be a contractor. But dont for one second think that 2 years of training in the field and the ability to study and pass a test makes you a master.

          I also had to take the business end of the license in the state of Connecticut. I can tell you this, I didn't study for either the plumbing or the business. I just familiarized myself with the chapter locations in the code book as well as the business books, and guess what, I passed the first time I took it. Does that test really gauge if I truely am a master or does my work speak for itself?

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          • #20
            Re: Are You Qualified?

            To me, the titles are just for the political arena we all must follow by what governs us.

            You can do a draw comparison of who's better, licensed or unlicensed, it all follows the same method of how we are classified.


            I'm 20+ years in this trade now, love it, but I need to use this trade to elevate to bigger horizons because being just a plumber doesn't cut it.

            It makes money but won't make you independently wealthy. You're dealing with people, their ****, and their attitudes which isn't all bad.

            Plumbing is my first love but that doesn't mean I'm staying married to the idea of what it's all about.

            I'll never abandon its purpose.....it's been too good to me whenever I've hit tight spots.

            You have to play politics (licensing) to get past the curve.
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            • #21
              Re: Are You Qualified?

              In my state the masters test is the same as the journeymans, with the addition of business math.
              I used to think that was weird, until I went into business.
              There is a stark difference between being a great plumber and being a great businessman, they are NOT one and the same.

              My opinion now is that the business math should be a part of the journeymans as well, having half a dozen 22 yr old kids in any given area who might live with their parents and habitually underprice jobs can reap havoc in any local market when experienced shops are dragged into competing with dangerously low prices...this is how mistakes happen, corners are cut.

              Utah (Mark) brings to light another important point, there are a variety of types of plumbing... service, new residential, commercial, industrial...many more.
              Bottom line, familiarity with your specific code book and where to find the laws helps, but more often than not it's also a matter of familiarity with manufacturer specs and techniques you won't find in a codebook.

              A good commercial plumber could size a greasetrap in his sleep, a residential plumber might not even know what the flow restrictor is, where it connects, and what size vent it requires.
              Alternatively, the residential plumber knows the code for boring joists, where the commercial guy might just break out the sawzall and have at it.

              We all have weaknesses, one of the first things I was taught was NEVER think you know it all, DON'T be afraid to learn...thats when you become lazy or arrogant, and stagnate in your trade.

              The first shop I ever worked for had an unusually large number of old time plumbers, guys with 30+ years in the trade.
              One of the best in the company was a guy who kept his original apprentice card from 35 years before right in his wallet (laminated).

              I remember he would frequently ask a 3rd year apprentice code questions when he wasn't sure...he was smart enough to know the kid had the knowledge fresh from school.

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              • #22
                Re: Are You Qualified?

                Originally posted by plumberscrack View Post
                Yeah but Rick is still ok in my book
                My god man!!!
                Pulllllease let there be peace!

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                • #23
                  Re: Are You Qualified?

                  Originally posted by Masterplumb View Post
                  I also had to take the business end of the license in the state of Connecticut. I can tell you this, I didn't study for either the plumbing or the business. I just familiarized myself with the chapter locations in the code book as well as the business books, and guess what, I passed the first time I took it. Does that test really gauge if I truely am a master or does my work speak for itself?
                  Thats scary.
                  We don't get an open book test, except charts for sizing, it's do or die...you know it or you don't.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Are You Qualified?

                    i became a registered apprentice at 15 through a special program at my highschool. at 19 i could legally have been a journeyman and all would be well. i have chossen a different route though for a few reasons.. i will be 25 this year and have to stil go to school twice to become a journeyman. though i have worked for a couple of companies who would not let me go to school for variouse reasons i mainley didn't go because of my age. it would be very hard at 19 to be a believable journeyman to say an older customer who i get allot. i have been lucky though , i prove myself quickly to those around me and get full respect, from my work not a title. i have had varouse rolls during my career, heck my boss has 3 years less time in the trade than i do but have allways eraned respect the way it should be from proving meyself. i have taken the old journeyman exam for fun and passed with high 80% range and the new test has been made easier, so i have been told. i feel strongly about a journeyman certification and back it up, i wish jobsite visits were part of it though, ive worked with allot of booksmart journeyman with 2 left hands. clear up what qualifications you mean here because i would hire the apprentice with a bit af pipe dope on his pants and dirt on his tools than a squeeky clean journeyman anyday
                    how is it that so many answers are in the instructions

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                    • #25
                      Re: Are You Qualified?

                      Originally posted by plumberscrack View Post
                      Yeah but Rick is still ok in my book


                      Ouch, don't start a fire now, we don'e want anyone to get the wrong idea.

                      Rick was not even in my mind when I was posting this, I am sure his work is fine.

                      No matches in the drought my main crackman
                      sigpic

                      Robert

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                      • #26
                        Re: Are You Qualified?

                        Sure was funny though.
                        Proud To Be Union!!

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                        • #27
                          Re: Are You Qualified?

                          I took the masters exam in 1973 when we were still under the boca code. It was not open book and if I recall it was a real *****. Over the years we have changed the code and finally adopted the ipc (Idiots plumbing code) and all tests are now open book.
                          We have toyed with the idea of having two masters licenses. One for residential and one for commercial, but the board could never make up their minds and gave up on that idea. Next we tried to use Massachusett's system where in you had to hold a Masters license to own the business but could not do the work without a journeymans. So to be a one man shop you need both licenses. I like the idea and have held a mass journeymans for years (had the masters too but never needed it so I let it go)
                          Those of you that have postulated that there are masters with 20 years or so and they are hacks are probably right. Lord knows I've run into a pile of them over the years.
                          I still ask the question (but I'll rephrase it)

                          What makes a plumber a master.?

                          knowledge
                          Skill
                          experiance
                          sigpic

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                          • #28
                            Re: Are You Qualified?

                            There are 'book smart' plumbers that know the code inside out but can't do the work. Then there is the plumber who can do the work but need to be told how to by the book smart ones.

                            I've had helpers that have been doing plumbing 25 years and also I have been outsmarted by guys with less than 3 years expierence

                            Some get it, some don't
                            Last edited by plumberscrack; 03-14-2008, 08:57 PM. Reason: 2 buts

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                            • #29
                              Re: Are You Qualified?

                              Originally posted by plumberscrack View Post
                              There are 'book smart' plumbers that know the code inside out but can't do the work. Then there is the plumber who can do the work but but need to be told how to by the book smart ones.

                              I've had helpers that have been doing plumbing 25 years and also I have been outsmarted by guys with less than 3 years expierence

                              Some get it, some don't
                              Right on.
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                              • #30
                                Re: Are You Qualified?

                                Originally posted by plumberscrack View Post
                                There are 'book smart' plumbers that know the code inside out but can't do the work. Then there is the plumber who can do the work but but need to be told how to by the book smart ones.
                                ....
                                I know a guy that took the exam 12 times, failed and finally got it the 13th time.
                                I have no shame admitting this guy could run circles around me.

                                I know another guy who got his masters by 24, his family is politically connected ("mysteriously" wins large residential & commercial bids constantly). He took out massive loans with his dad cosigning...hired a professional estimator, a crew of experienced plumbers at top rate and he was a millionaire within 5 years.

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