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Hot / cold water mystery ? ( long winded )

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  • Hot / cold water mystery ? ( long winded )

    I've been in the trade for 20 years and have not experienced this before . We have a 5 1/2 bath house (3 on 3rd fl. , 1 1/2 on 1st fl. , 1 in base ) , 2 -50 gallon heaters in series , recirc lines to all baths and kitchen , 2 - circ pumps one at each heater , all baths have an isolation valve on the line serving it . The house was to only have one pump originally taking care of all the baths , as an after thought the homeowner requested the second pump be added to serve only the kitchen . The layout of the cold water pipe in the house is from the meter first take off is riser to 1/2 bath and a full on the 2nd , 2nd take off is a full on the 2nd ,3rd take off is a full on the 2nd ,4th take off is base bath , 5th take off is kit , 6th take off is a full on the 1st and a laundry on the 2nd , water heaters are at the end of the run and the hot follows the cold back in reverse order of course .

    Everything worked fine in the house for about 4 months and then we got a complaint about no cold water at the kit. What we found was that the hot water was backing up in the cold line when it sat stagnant over night . we have gone thru everything that we can think of ( every body said that there has to be a return line crossed ) WE have checked every thing ,piped the heaters in parralell ( no change ), Checked for crossed water lines ( 100% positive none are crossed ) put both pumps on the first heater ( no change), put both pumps on the 2nd heater ( no change ) ,added a Watts dual check to the cold line in Oct of 07 ,this stopped the hot water from backing up into the cold and everything seemed to be OK , until Mar. of 08 . What ARE WE MISSING HERE !

    Steve
    EVERYBODY HAS LEAKS ,JUST DON'T HAVE YOUR"S ON MY JOB !

  • #2
    Re: Hot / cold water mystery ? ( long winded )

    sigpic

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    • #3
      Re: Hot / cold water mystery ? ( long winded )

      a bad kitchen faucet letting the water mix ??
      Charlie

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      • #4
        Re: Hot / cold water mystery ? ( long winded )

        Would you happen to have any Y hoses connected in a garage or laundry? you can try using swing checks in line to see if that helps. Check your water pressure and see if your expansion tanks are not full of water.
        ________
        Mercedes-Benz Axor
        Last edited by TOPDAWG; 02-24-2011, 05:54 PM.
        Mike

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        • #5
          Re: Hot / cold water mystery ? ( long winded )

          Pictures wont be possible with a finished basement , you should be able to picture a basic water heater install in your mind . Water is not mixing at a fct. we turned off the angle stops at each fixture to be sure that wasn't happening.
          EVERYBODY HAS LEAKS ,JUST DON'T HAVE YOUR"S ON MY JOB !

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          • #6
            Re: Hot / cold water mystery ? ( long winded )

            No expansion tanks required by the village and I would think the Watts dual check that we installed would be better than a swing check at stopping flow . .
            Last edited by flat350; 03-22-2008, 08:45 PM.
            EVERYBODY HAS LEAKS ,JUST DON'T HAVE YOUR"S ON MY JOB !

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            • #7
              Re: Hot / cold water mystery ? ( long winded )

              I have no idea what it might be then other than thermal expansion, Maybe dual checks are weak and water may be going back through a ballcock
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              Last edited by TOPDAWG; 02-24-2011, 05:54 PM.
              Mike

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              • #8
                Re: Hot / cold water mystery ? ( long winded )

                Originally posted by TOPDAWG View Post
                I have no idea what it might be then other than thermal expansion, Maybe dual checks are weak and water may be going back through a ballcock
                this is what I was thinking

                bleed over somewhere.....through a shower valve or some single handle fixture, gotta do a test.

                I have hot water turn up in downstairs toilets before because of bad cartridges.
                sigpic

                Robert

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                • #9
                  Re: Hot / cold water mystery ? ( long winded )

                  Is it possible that the 2 pumps are creating enough of a pressure differential that they can overcome street pressure and cause the hot water to back up when no water is in use ?
                  EVERYBODY HAS LEAKS ,JUST DON'T HAVE YOUR"S ON MY JOB !

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                  • #10
                    Re: Hot / cold water mystery ? ( long winded )

                    Originally posted by westcoastplumber View Post
                    this is what I was thinking

                    bleed over somewhere.....through a shower valve or some single handle fixture, gotta do a test.

                    I have hot water turn up in downstairs toilets before because of bad cartridges.
                    that very well could be, he threw me for a loop when he said he put in the dual check and it stopped the problem for a few months then it reappeared
                    ________
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                    Last edited by TOPDAWG; 02-24-2011, 05:54 PM.
                    Mike

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                    • #11
                      Re: Hot / cold water mystery ? ( long winded )

                      Thats right , we put in a Watts dual check a #7 and it stopped the problem for 5 months and then it reappeared , thats what makes it really weird .
                      EVERYBODY HAS LEAKS ,JUST DON'T HAVE YOUR"S ON MY JOB !

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                      • #12
                        Re: Hot / cold water mystery ? ( long winded )

                        Originally posted by flat350 View Post
                        Is it possible that the 2 pumps are creating enough of a pressure differential that they can overcome street pressure and cause the hot water to back up when no water is in use ?
                        if you have the checks and circulators in the right position you should only be pushing the water through the loop with no pressure build up what so ever.
                        ________
                        Marriage advice
                        Last edited by TOPDAWG; 02-24-2011, 05:54 PM.
                        Mike

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                        • #13
                          Re: Hot / cold water mystery ? ( long winded )

                          I also did this exact same house a few months later on another job and its piped exactly the same and the 2nd house works fine with no problems , the only thing different between them is one has Kohler fcts. and the other one has Danze fcts. The problem house has the Danze fcts.
                          EVERYBODY HAS LEAKS ,JUST DON'T HAVE YOUR"S ON MY JOB !

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                          • #14
                            Re: Hot / cold water mystery ? ( long winded )

                            Is it hot water or just not cold water i.e. luke warm?

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                            • #15
                              Re: Hot / cold water mystery ? ( long winded )

                              The kit. fct will have hot water on both sides , maybe a little cooler on the cold side . A little more info , the kit fct. is a Grohe and all the lav fcts. are 2 handle widespread Danze , the tub or shower fcts. are Danze thermostatic not pressure balanced valves .
                              EVERYBODY HAS LEAKS ,JUST DON'T HAVE YOUR"S ON MY JOB !

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