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  • #16
    Re: flat rate price example

    Originally posted by All Clear Sewer View Post
    Now why do people think that your milking if your T/M ?

    I`m T/M and I bet I can do most jobs in 1/2 the time any F/R book gives ya.

    I was a factory plumber for a trailer house factory years ago and I could totally plumb 5 Double wide homes including fixtures a day. I was like 18 back then, Dont know that I could do it now, but I bet I could come close.

    that's what i'm talking about

    not sure about the double wides

    but i was a production plumber for 15 years, so to me it's a 123 thing. not an all day thing. plus i have too many places to be in a day to milk anything.

    rick.
    phoebe it is

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: flat rate price example

      Originally posted by All Clear Sewer View Post
      Now why do people think that your milking if your T/M ?

      I`m T/M and I bet I can do most jobs in 1/2 the time any F/R book gives ya.

      I was a factory plumber for a trailer house factory years ago and I could totally plumb 5 Double wide homes including fixtures a day. I was like 18 back then, Dont know that I could do it now, but I bet I could come close.

      Why do people think your scabbing, or ripping people off doing Flat Rate??

      You just dont go to a store and buy a flat rate book
      The History of Sanitary Sewers Good site on the history of sanitary sewers and cleaners

      www.thedrainsquad.net Our website

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: flat rate price example

        Originally posted by MPMGinAL View Post
        check out UpFrontPrice.com. There are some sample books there that you can actually download, print, and use. Yes, you can make your own flat rate book, but it would take a countless number of hours to account for everything in a flate rate guide. As for the guys that bash flat-rate. All of the prices are 100% your own. If you can't sell at the rate change it. I know i can't get 1500 for a wh swap out, so i changed it. The owner of the above mentioned company is randal hilton he is a pretty cool and knowledgable guy to talk to about the subject.

        My problem with T&M is that as you grow there is a chance that two techs could charge two nieghbors different prices for the same job. How do you explain that.

        As you as a tech grow and get better you in turn get faster. You might attend schools and become more familiar with things, thus making you faster. Based on T&M the more versed your are at your job, the better your tools are, etc. the less your worth, because you should be faster.

        Plumber Rick for example, apparently has every tool that has hit the market. To me he is working smarter with more technologically advanced stuff. He should be able to make repairs faster with his plethera of propresses, but does that mean that he is not worth as much as the guy that still insists on age old soldering techniques? At the end of the day both repairs have done the same thing why not get paid the same. Rick shouldn't get shafted even though he has been drinking cocktails since you finished cleaning your fittings and waiting on that three story house to drain so you could fix the leak.

        The only reason that i make reference to soldering versus pressing is taht most all of the people that bash flat rate are the by god im not using that pex stuff or pressing is crap, or to heck with csst i only run sch 40. No offense meant to the old timers, but things evolve.

        Well said. My theory behind the flat rate is , its protects me, and more importantly my customers. I wont have to worry about charging customers different prices. They all get the same prices. No matter what. If it takes you the same amount of time to snake Mr Smiths line from outside, and Mrs Jones line from outside, both same problems, but charge Mr Smith more cause you were having a bad day...That doesnt fly with me. I have NEVER had a price complaint on a flat rate job EVER!!! T&M they are hawking you. When they hear its going be X amount of dollars to clear the line wether its 15 mins or 2 hrs they are all for it, but if i tell you Well its going to be 65 an hour, could take 2 or 3 hrs. Now they are panicing.
        The History of Sanitary Sewers Good site on the history of sanitary sewers and cleaners

        www.thedrainsquad.net Our website

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: flat rate price example

          Originally posted by rombo View Post
          Well i won't have much overhead as of right. i own a 3/4 pick up that will get my started. not as easy as working out of a van.

          have most tools so i don't need to make 2k a day

          What about insurance (general liability & auto), license fees, gasoline, stock, etc?

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: flat rate price example

            i have all of those factored in as they are an on going cost. i was more talking about initial cost and i will be using home as a shop for now

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: flat rate price example

              Originally posted by Drain Medic View Post
              Why do people think your scabbing, or ripping people off doing Flat Rate??

              You just dont go to a store and buy a flat rate book
              Because I can R&R a W/C in less then .5 and that`s from the trailer to the house and back to the trailer with the old one. Whats the F/R for that job?
              http://www.all-clear-sewer.com/

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: flat rate price example

                Originally posted by Drain Medic View Post
                Well said. My theory behind the flat rate is , its protects me, and more importantly my customers. I wont have to worry about charging customers different prices. They all get the same prices. No matter what. If it takes you the same amount of time to snake Mr Smiths line from outside, and Mrs Jones line from outside, both same problems, but charge Mr Smith more cause you were having a bad day...That doesnt fly with me. I have NEVER had a price complaint on a flat rate job EVER!!! T&M they are hawking you. When they hear its going be X amount of dollars to clear the line wether its 15 mins or 2 hrs they are all for it, but if i tell you Well its going to be 65 an hour, could take 2 or 3 hrs. Now they are panicing.
                I have nothing against an honest flat-rater (which I believe you are) but this statement makes no sense. Under T&M it would not matter what type of day you were having as an hour is an hour regardless of how you are feeling. In addition, most mainlines take less than an hour so if a flat-rater is figuring 2-3 hours for a mainline the customer may be getting a fixed price but it is 2-3 times the cost of what it would be at T&M.

                Mark
                "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: flat rate price example

                  Upfrontprice.com

                  Affordable flat rate books without all the pressure.

                  Tell Randall I said hi!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: flat rate price example

                    Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                    I have nothing against an honest flat-rater (which I believe you are) but this statement makes no sense. Under T&M it would not matter what type of day you were having as an hour is an hour regardless of how you are feeling. In addition, most mainlines take less than an hour so if a flat-rater is figuring 2-3 hours for a mainline the customer may be getting a fixed price but it is 2-3 times the cost of what it would be at T&M.

                    Mark
                    Actually my upfrontprice book figures less than an hour for a basic mainline. Its actually too cheap imo, I had to adjust it higher to cover the costs of machine wear & tear.
                    Water Heater Reviews & Water Heater Information

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: flat rate price example

                      truthfully, it's pretty easy to estimate/ flat rate a sewer cleaning job.

                      especially when it's a repeat customer.

                      i already know how much time i will need 95% of the time. that's why i can sch. the work day the way i do.

                      it's the plumbing unknown that will screw up your sch.

                      rick.
                      phoebe it is

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: flat rate price example

                        I will be charging flat rates and discount for multiple lines of service
                        ANYONE CAN TAKE THE HELM WHEN THE SEA IS CALM.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: flat rate price example

                          Originally posted by All Clear Sewer View Post
                          Because I can R&R a W/C in less then .5 and that`s from the trailer to the house and back to the trailer with the old one. Whats the F/R for that job?

                          And thats great. Now, are you just replacing the toilet?? or are you R/R the toilet and snaking the line, video inspecting the line??


                          Hey Flat rate isnt for everyone. I prefer it, it works for me. I never have a price complaint, everyone gets the same pricing, its easy for invoicing, its easy for computer work. The less effort i have to do with paperwork and computerwork, the better for me. Some people need to stay T&M due to one man shows, or that is what all the companies in there areas are doing, others are just to afraid to get with the times. Im sure in 5-10yrs from now when just about every service company out there is flat rate, and the T&Mers are trying to do the jobs, they will get kicked off jobs. Unfortunetly this is what the trades are turning to. Its getting so bad out there, that people dont want to pay hourly....they want to know the price either over the phone of what its going to cost, or they want the total price upfront before you start, then if your to much they will send you home to find someone else. Maybe where your at T&M is the way to go, it doesnt fly in Philly. Of course you will find your local Craigslist plumber who will clear any drain for 20 bucks
                          Last edited by Drain Medic; 04-01-2008, 07:38 AM.
                          The History of Sanitary Sewers Good site on the history of sanitary sewers and cleaners

                          www.thedrainsquad.net Our website

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: flat rate price example

                            Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                            I have nothing against an honest flat-rater (which I believe you are) but this statement makes no sense. Under T&M it would not matter what type of day you were having as an hour is an hour regardless of how you are feeling. In addition, most mainlines take less than an hour so if a flat-rater is figuring 2-3 hours for a mainline the customer may be getting a fixed price but it is 2-3 times the cost of what it would be at T&M.

                            Mark

                            Sure it does. If your having a slow day, and you need to make certain quotas, which some companies do, they will charge different prices. Im not saying the honest T&Mer is going to do that, but i know for a fact that there are companies out there who would go to a senior citizens house and because they didnt make their 1000 bucks for the day will charge 150 an hour instead of their regular 95 an hour. It happens everywhere.

                            I personally like going to a house that your fly by nighter craiglsist drain cleaner goes to, charges the customer 500 bucks for being there for 8hrs, couldnt get the drain open, i get there, jet the line from the outside cleanout, video inspect the line and charge 600 for my 1 1/2 hrs. Gotta love it. Then they will say, wow, 600 bucks, you were only here for 1 1/2 hrs. And my beautifull responce to that, YEP and i got your drain clean and running free, here is your warranty...Its ashame the other guy didnt know when to quit, but he is T&M so he just keeps stabbing away at it with a cable to run that bill up.
                            The History of Sanitary Sewers Good site on the history of sanitary sewers and cleaners

                            www.thedrainsquad.net Our website

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: flat rate price example

                              I know this is an old topic but I'm newer to the board so I'm gonna jump in here...I haven't researched all the threads to see if this has come up yet so for give me if I am being redundant.

                              Our shop uses a mixture of T&M and flat rate. For example we have a set price for cleaning a main drain up to 100', and we have a set rate for water heaters (this is based on 1' of pipe replacement at each connection - h/c, gas, vent). These rates are based on what the market dictates...we have to stay competitive...of course there are always guys out there quoting jobs at ridiculously low prices then pounding customers with extras after the work begins.

                              Anyway, my question is to the flat rate guys...how do you bill for unforseen circumstances. We all probably have encountered a water heater boxed in by either finished walls or gas/water supply lines in which case you have to lift the heater in and out (usually requiring an extra man) or undergo so major repiping...of course this could not have been known when you quoted the price over the phone. Would this extra labor then be charged on an hourly basis or what. Not trying to stir the pot here...just curious cause I'm new here.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: flat rate price example

                                Originally posted by youngsplumbing View Post
                                I know this is an old topic but I'm newer to the board so I'm gonna jump in here...I haven't researched all the threads to see if this has come up yet so for give me if I am being redundant.

                                Our shop uses a mixture of T&M and flat rate. For example we have a set price for cleaning a main drain up to 100', and we have a set rate for water heaters (this is based on 1' of pipe replacement at each connection - h/c, gas, vent). These rates are based on what the market dictates...we have to stay competitive...of course there are always guys out there quoting jobs at ridiculously low prices then pounding customers with extras after the work begins.

                                Anyway, my question is to the flat rate guys...how do you bill for unforseen circumstances. We all probably have encountered a water heater boxed in by either finished walls or gas/water supply lines in which case you have to lift the heater in and out (usually requiring an extra man) or undergo so major repiping...of course this could not have been known when you quoted the price over the phone. Would this extra labor then be charged on an hourly basis or what. Not trying to stir the pot here...just curious cause I'm new here.

                                I dont speak for everyone, but i do have access fees. If its going to take me awhile, i will convert to hourly, but only on jobs that will take all day, or have many drains to do. I wont task every single drain, then it would be to expensive.

                                For example. If i had to cut an access on the wall to go to a drum trap for a tub, there would be an access fee to cut the wall and a task to clean the tub line.
                                The History of Sanitary Sewers Good site on the history of sanitary sewers and cleaners

                                www.thedrainsquad.net Our website

                                Comment

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