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  • #31
    Re: flat rate price example

    x2 on the extras?

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: flat rate price example

      what do you mean?
      The History of Sanitary Sewers Good site on the history of sanitary sewers and cleaners

      www.thedrainsquad.net Our website

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: flat rate price example

        sorry i mean i would also like to know how these extra's are dealt with

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: flat rate price example

          There would be a discount rate on the 2nd task or the access fee
          The History of Sanitary Sewers Good site on the history of sanitary sewers and cleaners

          www.thedrainsquad.net Our website

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: flat rate price example

            do you ever have anyone say i thought it was the same price no matter what????

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: flat rate price example

              Everyone keeps going back to the same thing. Sometimes un-forseens happen. You just have to suck them up and get the job done. You are not going to loose money if it takes an additional coupling or two or an extra 15 min. What DrainMedic is trying to say is you go in look at the job. FE: 40 Gal Lowboy in C/S. You have a FR price to change out hater, lets say 740.00, a price for intermediate access 110.00, needs ball valve and TXT 85 and 175 respectively. Mrs. Ma'am your water heater changeout will cost 1110.00. Thats it. No more. No Less. Now, do you have to charge for access, extra fittings, etc. NO! Completely up to you, but its there if needed.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: flat rate price example

                F/R would be good and a money maker if every plumber in your town used it. From what I have seen, only the Big plumbing Co`s use it around here and get away with the extra pricing that the small guy cant. I can do a W/H for an easy 600.00 if there is no repiping and be done in .5 now the big plumbing Co`s get 1000.00 to I`ve heard as much as 1500.00. The people around just cant swing that kind of money. Most of the big plumbing CO`s have lay-off and the little plumbers keep pretty busy. I saw 3 vans that have been parked for about the last 3 months from one of the Big Plumbing CO`s...hummm We call them the A Team as they are the biggest plumbing CO around here. They got rid of the union and are still having trouble.
                http://www.all-clear-sewer.com/

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: flat rate price example

                  a couple weeks back i was doing a job 2 doors from one of the very first flat rate companies.

                  i was on the roof of the building and was able to look right into the yard of the company.

                  at 10:30 am. they had 27 trucks parked in their lot. not sure how many were out on the road, but there was not room for many more trucks to fit.

                  this is a company that has radio ads, multiple phone book pages.

                  it takes time for the word to spread.

                  even 5 years ago i saw the owner at the supply house with a list of material he was trying to sell back to the supply houses.

                  i'm just waiting for a fire sale

                  rick.
                  phoebe it is

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: flat rate price example

                    I know what you are saying. I'm just me and one other now. I see the big companies having trouble as well. What i have done is realized that doing one water heater for 800-1000 makes me about 3 times as much money as one at say 600. I do something that most plumbers can't fathime though, 5 year parts, labor, workmanship warranty. Yes it sounds ridiculous, but honestly, what is the chance that the Rheem Pro you just put in is going to fail? This is something that most won't compete with. Espeially the Homecenters who are driving the prices down. They can not offer that warranty. This keeps my price from being compared apples to apples. Personally, i was charging more than 600 years ago.

                    Total Cost 600

                    Less WH (40GNG) 345

                    6 man hours 150
                    (6 man hours figuring you, a helper. Taking call picking up heater, driving to home, and installing 3 hours each you 30 per and helper 20/)

                    Misc Mat 30

                    Gross Profit 75.00

                    That's not good. to figure your net profit you would subtract your in-direct expenses (Fuel, mapp, solder, flux, hand towels, pipe dope, etc.) then you still have to subtract overhead ratio.

                    You might be better off giving Mrs. HO a 50 dollar bill and telling her to call someone else. All you made was your pay. Your business lost money! If the numbers are wrong please show me where.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: flat rate price example

                      Originally posted by MPMGinAL View Post
                      I know what you are saying. I'm just me and one other now. I see the big companies having trouble as well. What i have done is realized that doing one water heater for 800-1000 makes me about 3 times as much money as one at say 600. I do something that most plumbers can't fathime though, 5 year parts, labor, workmanship warranty. Yes it sounds ridiculous, but honestly, what is the chance that the Rheem Pro you just put in is going to fail? This is something that most won't compete with. Espeially the Homecenters who are driving the prices down. They can not offer that warranty. This keeps my price from being compared apples to apples. Personally, i was charging more than 600 years ago.

                      Total Cost 600

                      Less WH (40GNG) 345

                      6 man hours 150
                      (6 man hours figuring you, a helper. Taking call picking up heater, driving to home, and installing 3 hours each you 30 per and helper 20/)

                      Misc Mat 30

                      Gross Profit 75.00

                      That's not good. to figure your net profit you would subtract your in-direct expenses (Fuel, mapp, solder, flux, hand towels, pipe dope, etc.) then you still have to subtract overhead ratio.

                      You might be better off giving Mrs. HO a 50 dollar bill and telling her to call someone else. All you made was your pay. Your business lost money! If the numbers are wrong please show me where.

                      I agree, your math looks good to me, I charge over $800 for a 40 gallon gas complete.
                      Water Heater Reviews & Water Heater Information

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: flat rate price example

                        the last W/H I did cost me around 350.00
                        Parts to do the install were 20.00
                        Time from shop to get the heater
                        and do the install was right about
                        an hour That's like $230 an hour for me and my 10.00 an hour helper.

                        We don't warranty the install when a W/H fails only the heater.
                        You shouldn't have to eat your labor unless you didn't install it right.

                        I let em pick what W/H they want and give them the warranty card when I`m done.
                        http://www.all-clear-sewer.com/

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: flat rate price example

                          Originally posted by MPMGinAL View Post
                          I know what you are saying. I'm just me and one other now. I see the big companies having trouble as well. What i have done is realized that doing one water heater for 800-1000 makes me about 3 times as much money as one at say 600. I do something that most plumbers can't fathime though, 5 year parts, labor, workmanship warranty. Yes it sounds ridiculous, but honestly, what is the chance that the Rheem Pro you just put in is going to fail? This is something that most won't compete with. Espeially the Homecenters who are driving the prices down. They can not offer that warranty. This keeps my price from being compared apples to apples. Personally, i was charging more than 600 years ago.

                          Total Cost 600

                          Less WH (40GNG) 345

                          6 man hours 150
                          (6 man hours figuring you, a helper. Taking call picking up heater, driving to home, and installing 3 hours each you 30 per and helper 20/)

                          Misc Mat 30

                          Gross Profit 75.00

                          That's not good. to figure your net profit you would subtract your in-direct expenses (Fuel, mapp, solder, flux, hand towels, pipe dope, etc.) then you still have to subtract overhead ratio.

                          You might be better off giving Mrs. HO a 50 dollar bill and telling her to call someone else. All you made was your pay. Your business lost money! If the numbers are wrong please show me where.
                          Just as an observation it seems like your customer is paying for your guys to sit at a supply house due to poor planning on your part. Our trucks always had a 40 and 50 gallon gas water heater on the truck and the 30s were in the shop. The supply house doesn't charge anything for delivery so we would keep enough stock in the shop to restock the trucks each morning.

                          Even leaving your installed price the same, as a business owner you would put the time and money your wasting on your guys sitting at the supply house and turn it into your profit.

                          Mark
                          "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                          I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: flat rate price example

                            Originally posted by rombo View Post
                            do you ever have anyone say i thought it was the same price no matter what????

                            Not at all. I will look at the job, diagnose it, give them the price upfront of what it will cost. If i spend more the 20mins looking at the job, then they get charged a diagnosis fee of 45 bucks. I cover all my grounds 1st. If they agree to the price, i write it on the invoice, then have them sign. Thats the price. If after im done and they say, can you look at this...I will look at it and give them a discounted price to do whatever additional work they may have. Never had a price complaint being flat rate.
                            The History of Sanitary Sewers Good site on the history of sanitary sewers and cleaners

                            www.thedrainsquad.net Our website

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: flat rate price example

                              Originally posted by rombo View Post
                              i am lucky i am still young and live with my parents so my cost of living is low but i need to save money for a house in the next 2-3 years
                              My first impulse was anger.
                              Thats not your doing, it's because I have been played by budget hunting customers who will almost always go straight to the lowest bid...usually the newer guy who has little overhead.

                              Over a month ago I had a fella with a foreign accent asking me a plethora of questions regarding the type water heater I install & how much it would cost to install the one he wanted.
                              I spent 20 minutes on the phone with him explaining why he couldn't use a less expensive draft type heater to replace a powervent, and went over warranties, specs and efficiency ratings.
                              After I got off the phone I spent another 1/2 hour shopping around for the name he wanted, finally called him back 45 minutes later with a price and he said he'd call right back.

                              Next day I call him back to ask what was going on....he delightfully tells me another plumber is doing the heater I'd priced for $15 less than my bid, he'd waited an extra day without hot water to save $15, on my time.

                              I know who did the install, young fella just started up a few months back.

                              Situations like this have given me pause to consider quoting rediculously low prices, then explaining to the customer once I'm there that new piping isn't included, new vacuum breaker, new valve, expansion tank...etc.

                              But I won't...here's why:

                              There are shady practices on both sides of the fence, people that seek cheapo deals almost like predators, and vise versa...plumbers that scam more money after the fact...regardless of T&M or F/R.

                              They deserve eachother, as I see it.

                              It took a very short time on my own to realize something...you choose who your customer base will be for the long-run...the guy you offered to install the water heater for $100 less than half a dozen other quotes will be calling you in 6 months, maybe a year to play the same game all over again with his boiler/leak/clogged drain...over time you're spending more time waiting for these people to check your price over the other half dozen guys they have bidding against you until someone finally gives them the price they want.
                              I have had these types even schedule the work, all to tell me they went with someone else as I call them on the way there the next day.
                              The guy that does the heater at that price is left with no choice but to cut corners.

                              In short..DON'T sell yourself short...certain people will ALWAYS complain about prices, whether you charge $600 or $1100.
                              Don't just settle to make "a little more" than you made working for a shop..the shop you worked for had overhead, and now you do too, insurance, health, tools, vehicle, gas, storage/shop, marketing/advertizing ...and be absolutely sure you make a decent profit, a cash reserve is NOT a luxury.
                              When the engine goes, you'll realize that, when the threading machine dies, when your snap cutter dies, right angle, rotary hammer, sawzall, or when work dies to a crawl and you have no money to spend to advertize....list goes on and on.

                              I know a guy in a different trade that was told the IRS allows you to have a loss for the first three years and this has become his rationale for cutting prices to get customers and influence the way he runs his business...I like the guy but it doesn't look like he'll make it.
                              I hope I'm wrong.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: flat rate price example

                                Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                                My first impulse was anger.
                                Thats not your doing, it's because I have been played by budget hunting customers who will almost always go straight to the lowest bid...usually the newer guy who has little overhead.

                                Over a month ago I had a fella with a foreign accent asking me a plethora of questions regarding the type water heater I install & how much it would cost to install the one he wanted.
                                I spent 20 minutes on the phone with him explaining why he couldn't use a less expensive draft type heater to replace a powervent, and went over warranties, specs and efficiency ratings.
                                After I got off the phone I spent another 1/2 hour shopping around for the name he wanted, finally called him back 45 minutes later with a price and he said he'd call right back.

                                Next day I call him back to ask what was going on....he delightfully tells me another plumber is doing the heater I'd priced for $15 less than my bid, he'd waited an extra day without hot water to save $15, on my time.

                                I know who did the install, young fella just started up a few months back.

                                Situations like this have given me pause to consider quoting rediculously low prices, then explaining to the customer once I'm there that new piping isn't included, new vacuum breaker, new valve, expansion tank...etc.

                                But I won't...here's why:

                                There are shady practices on both sides of the fence, people that seek cheapo deals almost like predators, and vise versa...plumbers that scam more money after the fact...regardless of T&M or F/R.

                                They deserve eachother, as I see it.

                                It took a very short time on my own to realize something...you choose who your customer base will be for the long-run...the guy you offered to install the water heater for $100 less than half a dozen other quotes will be calling you in 6 months, maybe a year to play the same game all over again with his boiler/leak/clogged drain...over time you're spending more time waiting for these people to check your price over the other half dozen guys they have bidding against you until someone finally gives them the price they want.
                                I have had these types even schedule the work, all to tell me they went with someone else as I call them on the way there the next day.
                                The guy that does the heater at that price is left with no choice but to cut corners.

                                In short..DON'T sell yourself short...certain people will ALWAYS complain about prices, whether you charge $600 or $1100.
                                Don't just settle to make "a little more" than you made working for a shop..the shop you worked for had overhead, and now you do too, insurance, health, tools, vehicle, gas, storage/shop, marketing/advertizing ...and be absolutely sure you make a decent profit, a cash reserve is NOT a luxury.
                                When the engine goes, you'll realize that, when the threading machine dies, when your snap cutter dies, right angle, rotary hammer, sawzall, or when work dies to a crawl and you have no money to spend to advertize....list goes on and on.

                                I know a guy in a different trade that was told the IRS allows you to have a loss for the first three years and this has become his rationale for cutting prices to get customers and influence the way he runs his business...I like the guy but it doesn't look like he'll make it.
                                I hope I'm wrong.
                                Read my signature line! You generally lose money when you cut your price just to get a job.

                                Mark
                                "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                                I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                                Comment

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