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  • standing your ground

    at what point and how far are you willing to go take on an inspector that you know is wrong, were time is critical, and he is unwilling to listen reason[ a very daunting task at times] curious how others handle this,something i know weve all encountered, that which turns all into stress and distrust and disgust when your customer calls. give examples

  • #2
    Re: standing your ground

    i'm a good talker never had a problem with the inspector that took more than an hour or 2 to fix

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    • #3
      Re: standing your ground

      What are you dealing with? Here they pretty much follow the code with no "grandfathering" of anything. What's driving me crazy is the state is allowing municipalities to "tweak" the code making any of the universal codes redundant. Go to one county do this, go to the next county do that. Aggravating as heck.

      But if an inspector is wrong on something, I don't back down regardless of future inspections. The thing you have to weigh is the time do make changes the inspector wants versus time to not make changes if your right so you can get the inspection off.

      J.C.

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      • #4
        Re: standing your ground

        well said jc.

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        • #5
          Re: standing your ground

          if you know your right then show him the code book where you got your info from and if he is right ask him to show you where he gets his info from in a nice face
          then say to your self he is a
          Charlie

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          • #6
            Re: standing your ground

            This is a good one. About a year ago i was plumbing a remodel. Old house was stack vented. I replaced the CI Stack with PVC. We also added a bath on the other side of the house that was flat vented. The incoming horizontal lines were caught on the stack with a combination (I didn't have a san tee on truck). As the code that i was taught from allowed. Inspector came into crawlspace, shined his light on the fitting, turned it down and said call me when that is fixed and left. No time for explanation or anything. I fought like hell. Called him back the next morning, he refused to tell me the problem, said that i needed a code book. I went over his head to the chief inspector, which took 2 days to get a return phone call. I talked with the chief inspector code book in hand. He started off defending his inspector, when i finished and he admitted they were in the wrong, he apologized and said he would have inspector back out in the a.m. to finish inspection. Next day everything passed with nothing said at all about other stuff.

            Now I was right. 100%. However, it kept my contractor from sheetrocking for about a week, which he wasn't happy about. I spent alot of time on the phone, bickering and leaving messages. The inspector now won't even talk to me. He has yet to turn me down on anything else though. And other inspectors know me and what i did (went to the chief) and aren't real happy with me either.

            But at the end of the day i know that i did my job right and was able to retain my pride. The contractor was aggrivated about the deal, but now thinks he has some super-hero like plumber that knows more than the inspectors.

            In conversation with the chief he tried to explain that the code used to state that a combo could not be used for horizontal to vertical only the vertical to horizontal and horizontal to horizontal. When i pointed out that the 2003 IPC stated that a combo could be used in any change of direction he paused in silence and said "they must have changed it" I then pointed out that the 99 SPC had the exact same table the silence was priceless.

            Any of you old timers back him up? When did code change? I started plumbing in 98 so the 96 and 99 codes are all i have studied.

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            • #7
              Re: standing your ground

              Sometimes I wish I bookmark what I end up repeating over the years.


              Here it goes:


              Female plumbing inspector, the only female master plumber at the time. In Cincinnati Ohio and before I take off with this rant, she was right, I was wrong.


              Had to do with T&P's being turned up and ran outdoors when no floor drain exists. In her opinion, she felt that "default" by running to the floor was more important/served a better purpose than getting that discharge out of the structure.


              I argued that KY allowed such a modification and I was holding steady, feeling cocky that I had just received both journeyman licenses in two states, 2 months apart.

              Little did I know how special I really wasn't, I was PWNED by not only the inspector but yelled at by 3 of my bosses as soon as I got back to the shop that day for being objectionable to the inspector. Her being female wasn't the reason, it was the conditions favorable for accidental injury that I was prying hard to get her to understand.

              Was told if I pull a stunt like that again, I'll consider myself a prime candidate for the unemployment line.
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              • #8
                Re: standing your ground

                Inspectors are just prone to be missinformed as anyone.Who knows maybe the guy who taught his last class was tauaght wrong as to an interpretation on a particular code.

                If you know your stuff...Pin him down.Use your best tact and you may find a guy who will respect and remember you on the next one

                The UPC has an illustrated training manual available to us.Great tool to have on board if you have a discrepancy.Very discriptive,hard to misinterpret.

                You can actually use an easy fix (minimum required distance of a 2" washing trap arm is 4"/rarely do we comply).To help get him to see your structural conditions hindering your grade on vents.
                theoretical examples

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                • #9
                  Re: standing your ground

                  I will pull out my code book and hold my ground any time. Last year I took a job all the way to the state level and a month later they sheetrocked. There is no reason not to respectfully disagree with an inspector, I have found they like it and will respect you more.

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                  • #10
                    Re: standing your ground

                    I had one. I was told my T&P tube was too close to the floor, that it should be exactly 6" from the floor.
                    I told him that the North Carolina code specifically states that the tube must be WITHIN 6" of the floor, so as to prevent scalding. And that I JUST looked it up in my codebook in the truck, (which I really had).

                    He realized that I was right and muttered under his breath , and then said, " Ok, I'll pass it for now, but next time make it closer to 6"."

                    "Ok, fine!" I said, meaning....(Not)

                    Nothing too complicated, but hey I am just a service guy so I rarely do jobs big enough to need permits.
                    Last edited by Service Guy; 04-11-2008, 01:24 AM.
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                    • #11
                      Re: standing your ground

                      Originally posted by Service Guy View Post
                      I had one. I was told my T&P tube was too close to the floor, that it should be exactly 6" from the floor.
                      I told him that the North Carolina code specifically states that the tube must be WITHIN 6" of the floor, so as to prevent scalding. And that I JUST looked it up in my codebook in the truck, (which I really had).

                      He realized that I was right and muttered under his breath , and then said, " Ok, I'll pass it for now, but next time make it closer to 6"."

                      "Ok, fine!" I said, meaning....(Not)

                      Nothing too complicated, but hey I am just a service guy so I rarely do jobs big enough to need permits.

                      Here in KY it's within 2"

                      They do the shoe trick that it should barely be above pushing your foot to the edge.

                      Nobody ever thinks at how that's a cross-connection if the basement floods.
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                      • #12
                        Re: standing your ground

                        Originally posted by MPMGinAL View Post
                        When i pointed out that the 2003 IPC stated that a combo could be used in any change of direction he paused in silence and said "they must have changed it" I then pointed out that the 99 SPC had the exact same table the silence was priceless.
                        I have recently ran into something kinda similiar. UMC 03 has omitted lots of wording that was in 97. I have had a few instances with the main inspector that I deal with, where this has come up. He spoke with somebody from IAPMO who said he should reference and enforce wording in previous editions as he sees fit.

                        I guess I have been lucky. I have never had a job not pass, that should have.

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                        • #13
                          Re: standing your ground

                          Originally posted by Service Guy View Post
                          I had one. I was told my T&P tube was too close to the floor, that it should be exactly 6" from the floor.
                          I told him that the North Carolina code specifically states that the tube must be WITHIN 6" of the floor, so as to prevent scalding. And that I JUST looked it up in my codebook in the truck, (which I really had).

                          He realized that I was right and muttered under his breath , and then said, " Ok, I'll pass it for now, but next time make it closer to 6"."

                          "Ok, fine!" I said, meaning....(Not)

                          Nothing too complicated, but hey I am just a service guy so I rarely do jobs big enough to need permits.
                          UPC gives us both min.6"-max.24"
                          6" above grade being universal backflow/cross elevation.
                          24" manageable scalding water.

                          Next time you see this guy ask him how high he wants his backflow/anti-siphon devices,and why.
                          Last edited by drtyhands; 04-11-2008, 02:09 PM.

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