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  • #31
    Re: WTF-pics

    FINER. Where'd you go? Get another bid? 19 not enough?

    J.C.

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    • #32
      Re: WTF-pics

      sg..never noticed that. thanks for pointing it out. i'll endeavor to restrict my plumbing questions to the appropriate part of the forum. wouldn't want to get in the way of all the pros in here patting each other on the back. and don't be so thin skinned...i'm sure there are licensed tradesmen out there who do the kind of work that customers appreciate. problem is, there are to few of them.
      there's a solution to every problem.....you just have to be willing to find it.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: WTF-pics

        Originally posted by FINER9998 View Post
        maybe they just aren't very fond of individuals who charge small fortunes for what in many cases are relatively simple projects and leave an absolutely incredible mess behind them when these alledged pros proclaim the job "Done"! i have found that many pros view a customers home as only a job and fail to realize it is where the customer lives. and the absolute disdain for their surroundings many pros demonstrate during the course of a job is one reason i believe many people attempt repairs themselves.
        Lets be real here. The real issue in regards to why most people choose to do work themselves as opposed to hiring a professional is due to a percieved cost vs benefit balance. Many people feel the benefit derived from hiring a professional is out of proportion with the cost of hiring that individual. Most people know how to find a good plumber/electrician/carpenter if they need one. I do not find anything wrong with individuals trying to do something themselves. In fact, I find myself showing others in the plumbing aisles the right way to do something, after putting back everything the sales associate has already given them. However, I do wish them the best of luck with their project and give them my card in case they run into something they cannot handle. I have picked up more work, just going into the box stores and the parts supplier than I could get through any newspaper ad. As soon as people realize how affordable something can be, they are quick to ask if I can just come out and do it for them. I will agree that plumbing, like any industry, has its share of bad apples. There are those that do sloppy work, those that will walk right across the white carpet with their muddy boots on, and those that charge far too much. Just today I was just listening to a new customer of mine complain about a guy who came out to clean her kitchen drain in the evening on December 23rd. He used her plunger and her bowl to plug up the other side of the sink. Took about 5 minutes and the bill was $175. (May not seem like at lot to some in other areas, but the typical customer in this area would anticipate to pay $100 for an evening service call where the clog could be augered in less than 25' with a drill-type drain cleaner). All I can recommend to anyone considering getting work done is to get a referral from a friend, relative, neighbor before just inviting someone into your home.
        Distractions are everywhere, don't lose sight of your dream.

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        • #34
          Re: WTF-pics

          Originally posted by Devine Plumbing View Post
          All I can recommend to anyone considering getting work done is to get a referral from a friend, relative, neighbor before just inviting someone into your home.
          i second that

          it's all i've ever needed to do in all the years of working for myself.

          rick.
          phoebe it is

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          • #35
            Re: WTF-pics

            Let me apologize for playing in the pro's sandbox first, but hopefully you won't mind because I realize that you all have important skills that do provide value to lots of people every day.

            Originally posted by Devine Plumbing View Post
            Lets be real here. The real issue in regards to why most people choose to do work themselves as opposed to hiring a professional is due to a percieved cost vs benefit balance. Many people feel the benefit derived from hiring a professional is out of proportion with the cost of hiring that individual.
            I think you've hit the nail on the head. I could pay someone $100 an hour to do plumbing, and they would do a good job and would do it faster than I can. My take is that they aren't inherently smarter, it is just that they do it every day and know what to expect; so they won't run into the same problems or if they do, they know how to solve them, because they've solved it hundreds of times before. Even if it takes me 4-5x as long as the pro, I'm often still ahead, because I find working on my house enjoyable as long as I get a good result.

            Originally posted by Devine Plumbing View Post
            Most people know how to find a good plumber/electrician/carpenter if they need one. I do not find anything wrong with individuals trying to do something themselves. In fact, I find myself showing others in the plumbing aisles the right way to do something, after putting back everything the sales associate has already given them. However, I do wish them the best of luck with their project and give them my card in case they run into something they cannot handle. I have picked up more work, just going into the box stores and the parts supplier than I could get through any newspaper ad.
            I think this is the thing that for me distinguishes good plumbers, doctors, and other service people. The ability to explain to me what they are doing to my house (or me), and why. People who just assume that I can't understand it or don't bother explaining it, aren't likely to get repeat business. Those who can, will. If someone explains to me why they are providing a valuable service, and I'm paying for it I think we both end up happy.

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            • #36
              Re: WTF-pics

              I think anyone plumbing without a licence, even in their own homes should be arrested, fined and put in jail. Plumbing is not something to be screwed around with. Improper installation and "messing about" with water supply can cause dangerous even fatal backflow conditions to occur that can not only effect the resident of the home but thier neighbors also. Improper installation and "messing around" with DWV piping can cause similar conditions. The reason people in this country don't get cholera, dyptheria, dysentary and a host of other nasty diseases can be directly attributed to the care and knowledge of licensed plumbers. Why don't you homeowners, hell bent on saving a buck, do your own by pass surgery or dental work?
              Just because you own the house does not give you the right to put other people at risk. Don't think it can happen? Log on to watts.com and find their videos on backflow, scalding, and water heater explosion.
              sigpic

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              • #37
                Re: WTF-pics

                Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                The reason people in this country don't get cholera, dyptheria, dysentary and a host of other nasty diseases can be directly attributed to the care and knowledge of licensed plumbers. Why don't you homeowners, hell bent on saving a buck, do your own by pass surgery or dental work?
                .

                Touche!!
                The last time I went to the dentist it was $100..00 to prod around my mouth and tell me what I needed to have done. The last time I went to a doctor it was $175.00 for two hours (that's 1-3/4 hrs in the waiting room-10 min in the examination room and 5 minutes with the doctor).
                The only reason we don't live is squalor like 75% of the rest of the world is because of the plumbing industry here. WE DON'T GET PAID ACCORDINGLY. We usually become the brunt of jokes
                "Man will do many things to get himself loved, he will do all things to get himself envied." Mark Twain

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                • #38
                  Re: WTF-pics

                  Originally posted by SlimTim View Post
                  Touche!!
                  The last time I went to the dentist it was $100..00 to prod around my mouth and tell me what I needed to have done. The last time I went to a doctor it was $175.00 for two hours (that's 1-3/4 hrs in the waiting room-10 min in the examination room and 5 minutes with the doctor).
                  The only reason we don't live is squalor like 75% of the rest of the world is because of the plumbing industry here. WE DON'T GET PAID ACCORDINGLY. We usually become the brunt of jokes
                  And remember, according the the PHCC, the average pay for plumbers, nation wide is $ 44,000.00 a year.
                  sigpic

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                  • #39
                    Re: WTF-pics

                    Originally posted by FINER9998 View Post
                    maybe they just aren't very fond of individuals who charge small fortunes for what in many cases are relatively simple projects and leave an absolutely incredible mess behind them when these alledged pros proclaim the job "Done"! i have found that many pros view a customers home as only a job and fail to realize it is where the customer lives. and the absolute disdain for their surroundings many pros demonstrate during the course of a job is one reason i believe many people attempt repairs themselves.
                    Its like any other skill...I sure as heck cant pull my well point out of the ground. I have to pay. I cannot do drywall, I pay. Dentist, I pay. Transmission work, I pay.

                    I also try to be as clean as possible and respect a persons home...even if it is already a mess.

                    Sounds like you had a bad experience, or meet the wrong type of tradesman...I know I have. They are real jerks.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: WTF-pics

                      I think you've hit the nail on the head. I could pay someone $100 an hour to do plumbing, and they would do a good job and would do it faster than I can. My take is that they aren't inherently smarter, it is just that they do it every day and know what to expect; so they won't run into the same problems or if they do, they know how to solve them, because they've solved it hundreds of times before. Even if it takes me 4-5x as long as the pro, result.I'm often still ahead, because I find working on my house enjoyable as long as I get a good

                      How do you know if you "got a good result"? Because it works? Lots of things "work" but are'nt correct. Do you have at least 4 years of apprentice training? How about a journeymans license? Masters? How many plumbing or HVAC certificates do you carry? Is your plumbing knowledge soley based on a book you picked up at home depot? Or from watching This Old House or the DYI channel? You weekend warriors kill me..........
                      sigpic

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: WTF-pics

                        Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                        How do you know if you "got a good result"? Because it works? Lots of things "work" but are'nt correct. Do you have at least 4 years of apprentice training? How about a journeymans license? Masters? How many plumbing or HVAC certificates do you carry? Is your plumbing knowledge soley based on a book you picked up at home depot? Or from watching This Old House or the DYI channel? You weekend warriors kill me..........
                        For the most part yes, and for some things that they work for me should be good enough. I replaced the faucet in my kitchen and my dishwasher. They don't leak, the pressure is fine. I can't *prove* that it is a "good result", but how would a random plumber or dishwasher installer prove it either? I don't try to do everything, I had no problem spending the $1800 on a professionally new water heater.

                        In another post, someone said they don't do their own drywall or transmission; that is a perfectly valid choice, but for those of us who want
                        to attempt it there shouldn't be a problem. Should only a licensed mechanic be able to change a transmission? What about an oil change? What about pumping gas. Everyone mentions you wouldn't do your own bypass surgery, of course not. But most of us probably engage in some self diagnosis and take a Tylenol, or apply bacitracin and a band aid.

                        Not a plumbing problem, but you did mention HVAC. I don't have an HVAC certificate, but I certainly respect those who do. The last time my AC broke, I gladly paid the $80 diagnosis fee. The problem was that the thermostat wire from the compressor to the attic air handler got chewed up by an animal. It would have cost almost $800 dollars to get them to replace the wire. I was able to do it for about $20. I didn't have the knowledge to diagnose the problem, but had no problem fixing it. The $80 for the knowledge and the time at my house and traveling (~20 mins) was well worth it. I also know that I'm going to call them for my air conditioning needs, because each time the tech explained what the problem was and treated me and my house with respect.

                        I t

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                        • #42
                          Re: WTF-pics

                          Originally posted by Slim Tim
                          The last time I went to the dentist it was $100..00 to prod around my mouth and tell me what I needed to have done. The last time I went to a doctor it was $175.00 for two hours (that's 1-3/4 hrs in the waiting room-10 min in the examination room and 5 minutes with the doctor).
                          Imagine what those costs would be if the dentist/doctor had to come to you . . .

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: WTF-pics

                            Originally posted by NHMaster
                            I think anyone plumbing without a licence, even in their own homes should be arrested, fined and put in jail.
                            I don't know if I'd go that far, but I do think that insurance companies should not cover a problem where the HO did the plumbing. I've seen horrific and costly damage from something as simple as an HO installing a faucet.

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                            • #44
                              Re: WTF-pics

                              Anybody can justify just about anything. Nothing I can say is going to make a bit of difference.
                              sigpic

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                              • #45
                                Re: WTF-pics

                                Josh, cut this damn thread off with Finers first post so we can get back to the reason of this thread. NHMaster, you gettin a little silly now?
                                info for all: http://www.hoistman.com http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/index....wwtoolinfoforu --- "I like long walks, especially when they are taken by people who annoy me."

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