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  • #16
    Re: Pex ? Killing Off the "Mongo Man"?

    Originally posted by Masterplumb View Post
    So you think that hydronic radiant is less efficient then radiators and baseboard heating?

    Gravity systems; You think they were "greener" or "more efficient" ? Why because they dont have a circulator pump? Dont forget they weren't zoned either. How about the size of the mains? The bigger the main the more water they hold, the more water they hold the more btu's needed to heat the water. 1 BTU - The amount of heat it takes to raise 1 pound of water 1 degree. Think about how much water was in those 3" & 4" mains. An 80% boiler is more efficient then an old gravity system.
    Not to mention the residual leftover heat inside those large diameter pipes....T-stat stops calling for heat and the heat is still coming.

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    • #17
      Re: Pex ? Killing Off the "Mongo Man"?

      I actually used the wrong terms,

      In fact I am making a public apology,

      I actually didn't mean gravity water systems, I meant something else , But I forget the exact term ( Yes, I am human and forget )

      I was talking about the "Old" old old boilers that would sit in the basement and then radiate heat by air flow,

      You know the old houses that had vents in the floor though out th house.

      That kind of system is what I meant , But for some reason I said "gravity"

      But I actually meant what I said above

      And sure, GREEN is real , but like other said and I do agree , There are many "fake" green things as well
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      • #18
        Re: Pex ? Killing Off the "Mongo Man"?

        You're talking about indirect hot water heating. These systems originally were gravity systems. I have a few customers who still have these systems only now they are pumped. This came from Dan Holohan's book How Come

        http://www.heatinghelp.com/heating_howcome2.cfm

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        • #19
          Re: Pex ? Killing Off the "Mongo Man"?

          Originally posted by Masterplumb View Post
          You're talking about indirect hot water heating. These systems originally were gravity systems. I have a few customers who still have these systems only now they are pumped. This came from Dan Holohan's book How Come

          http://www.heatinghelp.com/heating_howcome2.cfm
          AH HA !

          Yes, that is what I meant and Thanks for correcting me, Yea, good ole Dan,

          I first met him when I was 18 and I used to work for a pump repair and steam trap company and they sent me to see one of his seminars back in the day , I think it was called "pumping away"

          Anyhow.

          Do you think those systems are more "Green" then Radiant floor heat?
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          • #20
            Re: Pex ? Killing Off the "Mongo Man"?

            Originally posted by PlumbingSkool View Post
            AH HA !

            Yes, that is what I meant and Thanks for correcting me, Yea, good ole Dan,

            I first met him when I was 18 and I used to work for a pump repair and steam trap company and they sent me to see one of his seminars back in the day , I think it was called "pumping away"

            Anyhow.

            Do you think those systems are more "Green" then Radiant floor heat?

            Absolutely not!

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            • #21
              Re: Pex ? Killing Off the "Mongo Man"?

              i consider myself a craftsman pex takes the skill out being a plumber in my opinon

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Pex ? Killing Off the "Mongo Man"?

                I too consider myself a craftsman, but in no way does PEX detract from the craft of plumbing. If done right it is just as much a craft. I can imagine those older than me said the same thing about PVC and its use replacing copper/CI drains. I too will be sad when the days of $100 a week bonus pay ends. But for now still lots of old copper drain and water lines that need to be changed out.
                Distractions are everywhere, don't lose sight of your dream.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Pex ? Killing Off the "Mongo Man"?

                  Originally posted by PlumbingSkool View Post
                  I actually used the wrong terms,

                  In fact I am making a public apology,

                  I actually didn't mean gravity water systems, I meant something else , But I forget the exact term ( Yes, I am human and forget )

                  I was talking about the "Old" old old boilers that would sit in the basement and then radiate heat by air flow,

                  You know the old houses that had vents in the floor though out th house.

                  That kind of system is what I meant , But for some reason I said "gravity"

                  But I actually meant what I said above

                  And sure, GREEN is real , but like other said and I do agree , There are many "fake" green things as well
                  Gotta make the correction here and set the record straight. Boilers heat water, Furnaces heat air. What you are referring to is "gravity hot air" sometimes called one pipe hot air by old timers. (not me of course) These furnaces had no blowers attached (though many were later converted) There were also gravity hot water boilers around also. ( in fact I service a couple in town) they have no circulator and are usually piped like a one pipe steam system. Quite often the expansion tank would be an open tank installed in the attic. Make up water was strictly a manual thing. If you've been around a while you might have been priviledged to work on an old NRC boiler with a Timkin rotary burner.
                  sigpic

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                  • #24
                    Re: Pex ? Killing Off the "Mongo Man"?

                    Originally posted by djrenek1 View Post
                    i consider myself a craftsman pex takes the skill out being a plumber in my opinon
                    I agree, but when your losing jobs to other shops that give the customer the price they want, your backed into a corner and your either a plastic plumber or a hungry plumber.
                    Just had this conversation with a 50 year veteran of the trade a few weeks ago.
                    I think it was NHMaster that went off on a tangent over how money and/or politics seems to have influenced those who enforce code.

                    But then, I betcha there were doubting Toms when PVC first came out for drainage...who knows, time talls all.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Pex ? Killing Off the "Mongo Man"?

                      Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                      Gotta make the correction here and set the record straight. Boilers heat water, Furnaces heat air. What you are referring to is "gravity hot air" sometimes called one pipe hot air by old timers. (not me of course) These furnaces had no blowers attached (though many were later converted) There were also gravity hot water boilers around also. ( in fact I service a couple in town) they have no circulator and are usually piped like a one pipe steam system. Quite often the expansion tank would be an open tank installed in the attic. Make up water was strictly a manual thing. If you've been around a while you might have been priviledged to work on an old NRC boiler with a Timkin rotary burner.
                      I have a customer who has a gravity setup, she asked me if I could add circs...one of those jobs that are on my to-do list this summer.
                      She's unhappy with the amount of time it takes to heat when she turns up the stat, as well as the fact that it seems to overheat after the fact.
                      To me it seems like a rudimentary form of home heating...almost as rough as using a fireplace.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Pex ? Killing Off the "Mongo Man"?

                        Originally posted by djrenek1 View Post
                        i consider myself a craftsman pex takes the skill out being a plumber in my opinon
                        WOW - Thats cool, because I feel the same exact way, SURE one can make a PEX manifold look good, but it takes skill to make a no drip, no run clean looking solder joint.

                        Any idiot can learn how to use a pex crip tool in 5 seconds and before you know it people will be "out sourcing " plumbing cause its 1 2 3 .

                        To everyone that thinks I am paranoid about how PEX can destroy this beautiful trade, please understand that its only my opinion

                        Originally posted by Devine Plumbing View Post
                        I too consider myself a craftsman, but in no way does PEX detract from the craft of plumbing. If done right it is just as much a craft. I can imagine those older than me said the same thing about PVC and its use replacing copper/CI drains. I too will be sad when the days of $100 a week bonus pay ends. But for now still lots of old copper drain and water lines that need to be changed out.
                        See my above reasons ,

                        Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                        Gotta make the correction here and set the record straight. Boilers heat water, Furnaces heat air. What you are referring to is "gravity hot air" sometimes called one pipe hot air by old timers. (not me of course) These furnaces had no blowers attached (though many were later converted) There were also gravity hot water boilers around also. ( in fact I service a couple in town) they have no circulator and are usually piped like a one pipe steam system. Quite often the expansion tank would be an open tank installed in the attic. Make up water was strictly a manual thing. If you've been around a while you might have been priviledged to work on an old NRC boiler with a Timkin rotary burner.

                        Ok yea, I never got the exact name for that system right, because they are scarce but yes, I think ""gravity hot air" sometimes called one pipe hot air by old timers." is what I really meant,

                        Oh and BTW could you possible send get some pictures for me the next time you service one?

                        I would be more then happy to give you credit for the photo

                        Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                        I agree, but when your losing jobs to other shops that give the customer the price they want, your backed into a corner and your either a plastic plumber or a hungry plumber.
                        Just had this conversation with a 50 year veteran of the trade a few weeks ago.
                        I think it was NHMaster that went off on a tangent over how money and/or politics seems to have influenced those who enforce code.

                        But then, I betcha there were doubting Toms when PVC first came out for drainage...who knows, time talls all.


                        Yes, there will ALWAYS be someone cheaper , so there is NEVER a reason to sell short of quality ( using pex instead of copper ) , What you need to do is make your shop "Remarkable" because thats something that not everyone can do

                        Just my thoughts
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                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Pex ? Killing Off the "Mongo Man"?

                          Skool, by the way...hadn't intended to jump on ya...nor looking for an apology...you were right that there are going to be "wannabe" green shams that ride the wave.
                          I do get a little testy regarding denials of tech that is proven to work...so often I start explaining this to custoemrs and I get the "ah-ha, yup, sure" routine as if I'm trying to sell something more expensive....gets old after awhile.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Pex ? Killing Off the "Mongo Man"?

                            Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                            Skool, by the way...hadn't intended to jump on ya...nor looking for an apology...you were right that there are going to be "wannabe" green shams that ride the wave.
                            I do get a little testy regarding denials of tech that is proven to work...so often I start explaining this to custoemrs and I get the "ah-ha, yup, sure" routine as if I'm trying to sell something more expensive....gets old after awhile.

                            Its all cool, Thats what forums are for discussion

                            I love to always hear ALL sides and all opinions, That always helps me grow

                            Thanks bunches for all the input
                            Help With Your Pool Or Spa Pump?►WeT HeaD Pump Repair ► Watch Me On YouTube: Pool & Spa Pump Repair TV
                            New: Pump Repair MagazineNew: Pool & Spa Pump Repair Forums

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                            • #29
                              Re: Pex ? Killing Off the "Mongo Man"?

                              Hey Ducky, What you gonna charge the old girl for adding the circ and controls? I'll bet it'td be just about as cheap to replace the whole thing. Bet the boiler's older than you and me together.
                              sigpic

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                              • #30
                                Re: Pex ? Killing Off the "Mongo Man"?

                                By the way - I'm gonna copy write "it'td" so no using it without license.
                                sigpic

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