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  • Plumbers' Opinions

    With toilets being 1.6 gallons and some trying to go even lower, would 3" be better for the toilet line or 4"? Would the waste be more likely to move down the line with hydraulic gradient than with 4"? What's your opinion?

    J.C.

  • #2
    Re: Plumbers' Opinions

    I would thing 3" would be better in a residential application. However, I think as water conservation becomes a higher priority and material cost rising it will create a need for a more efficient waste system.
    Anyone can tear a man down, few can build one up.

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    • #3
      Re: Plumbers' Opinions

      i say use a out house and no water will be used
      Charlie

      My seek the peek fundraiser page
      http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


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      • #4
        Re: Plumbers' Opinions

        I'll take 3" for a hundred BOB.

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        • #5
          Re: Plumbers' Opinions

          The best size pipe to run would be 3".

          Because there's less water moving down the line then is previously designed toilets, in 4" there's more air around the waste and water, creating a drag effect, which is going to 'push against' the waste and water and not let it travel as far, as easily.

          In 3" the waste and water is 'tighter' to the outside wall of the pipe, letting the waste and water go further with less resistance.
          Last edited by Aaron91; 05-26-2008, 10:16 AM.
          Proud To Be Union!!

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          • #6
            Re: Plumbers' Opinions

            I say 3...
            There is one distinct advantage for 4" horizontally.
            It has a milder pitch, which is better for solid waste.
            Too much pitch will cause water to race ahead & leave solids behind, too little and standing waste.
            I buy Aarons thoughts on diameter/volume, a lower amount of water per flush means less volume.
            Smaller pipe means more water behind sluggish solids that has less space to go around the solid.
            Best guys to ask this are the drain cleaners...they see it all the time.

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            • #7
              Re: Plumbers' Opinions

              I think 3" is much better for the self scouring principles involved.
              sigpic

              Robert

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              • #8
                Re: Plumbers' Opinions

                I might get tons of people that disagree with me but here goes, with PVC I never clear a drain with to much slope. to little yes I might get a big bunch of TP plugging things up. I believe, in the IPC code it gives more DFU load to pipe with 1/2inch per foot fall. course it's been a few years since I perused the code book. (sorry Mark) .

                Hmmm seems to me if you eliminated paper products this would be a mute point. But how can we reduce the use of paper products in drain systems?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Plumbers' Opinions

                  Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                  I say 3...
                  There is one distinct advantage for 4" horizontally.
                  It has a milder pitch, which is better for solid waste.
                  Too much pitch will cause water to race ahead & leave solids behind, too little and standing waste.
                  I buy Aarons thoughts on diameter/volume, a lower amount of water per flush means less volume.
                  Smaller pipe means more water behind sluggish solids that has less space to go around the solid.
                  Best guys to ask this are the drain cleaners...they see it all the time.
                  This one still puzzles me. The ipc gives a bigger load capacity given a steeper slope but it doesn't give a maximum slope. I've never seen an example (yet) where the solids are suspended in to steep of a slope. The laterals here tie into the sewer main with at a 45 deg angle which is often 10-20 ft and that's always the cleanest part of the pipe which contridacts the excess slope theory.
                  Buy cheap, buy twice.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Plumbers' Opinions

                    the biggest issue i see now from low flow toilets due to distance from the main to other water producing fixtures. prime example is a powder room. consist of a toilet and a lav sink. of course the lav doesn't run long enough to help wash the waste and paper down stream.

                    i know for a fact that a properly laid out plastic/abs/pvc system will out carry a properly laid no hub line. and as the no hub gets pitted the plastic will still be smooth.

                    why can't the manufactures of no hub, epoxy coat the inside of the pipe and fittings thus giving us an approved pipe that will never pit

                    rick.
                    phoebe it is

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                    • #11
                      Re: Plumbers' Opinions

                      Yep rick I have to agree with you distance seems to be the biggest downfall. Long runs for just a kitchen sink on PVC is a good way to a plugged drain from what I see.

                      Good point Rick

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                      • #12
                        Re: Plumbers' Opinions

                        Forget the low water toilet and plumb how are grandfathers plumbed.

                        This whole "green" and save the earth bullshit will be over really soon and then once again we will want to flush our "dudy" with some force,

                        Check this out...

                        You buy a car that breaks the speed limit , BUT your afraid to tell your customers to buy a regular toilet instead of some crappy low flush,

                        Come on guys stand you ground and tell the reps that we are plumbers that some marketing crap is not worth our health

                        Personally I can't see how "skipping out" on toilet water is a "good thing"

                        Anyone have a pool?

                        I hope your not splashing the water out , are you.....Just think of how much water that wastes.

                        Thousands of gallons are "splashed out"


                        Here;s an idea, invent a "splash free pool" or > a "never leaking hose nozzle".....

                        The problem is not PIPE size , its these corporate *******s trying to change the industry......

                        Just at least thing about it before you bash my response......

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Plumbers' Opinions

                          Originally posted by PlumbingSkool View Post
                          BUT your afraid to tell your customers to buy a regular toilet instead of some crappy low flush,
                          You can buy a toilet that isn't low flow? Not here.
                          I love my plumber

                          "My Hero"

                          Welcome, Phoebe Jacqueline!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Plumbers' Opinions

                            Originally posted by gear junkie View Post
                            This one still puzzles me. The ipc gives a bigger load capacity given a steeper slope but it doesn't give a maximum slope. I've never seen an example (yet) where the solids are suspended in to steep of a slope. The laterals here tie into the sewer main with at a 45 deg angle which is often 10-20 ft and that's always the cleanest part of the pipe which contridacts the excess slope theory.
                            The main reason I said drain cleaners will know best, they are the ones who'd know...you clean drains so it's in your court.
                            From day one here in school they teach us that if a drain has too much pitch, the s--t is gonna get left behind.

                            The question of why we use a smaller 1/8" pitch on larger 4"+ pipes and 1/4" on smaller 3" or less comes up.

                            Anyone feel free to correct me, but volume comes to mind.
                            A 4"+ pipe has more volume (width) for water to rush past solids, it's pitch is lower, less velocity for faster moving fluids to gain when carrying solids.

                            The idea is that a toilet thats infrequently used could be flushed into a drain with a steep pitch, leaving solids behind to dry in place & adhere after each use.

                            I highly doubt many blockages are a result of pitch, especially on a lateral/main where there's constant use, despite an extreme pitch.

                            Again, feel free to correct me, but blockages aside from external interference like roots seem most common at changes of directions where linear objects are most likely to hang up at a radius thats too short to accomodate, corrosion that causes constriction & pitting for debris to hang up on, or a lip on a fitting/connection.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Plumbers' Opinions

                              Originally posted by saysflushable View Post
                              I might get tons of people that disagree with me but here goes, with PVC I never clear a drain with to much slope. to little yes I might get a big bunch of TP plugging things up. I believe, in the IPC code it gives more DFU load to pipe with 1/2inch per foot fall. course it's been a few years since I perused the code book. (sorry Mark) .

                              Hmmm seems to me if you eliminated paper products this would be a mute point. But how can we reduce the use of paper products in drain systems?
                              For unknown, subconscious reasons, my whole family has been using more TP than ever...a mystery.

                              Comment

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