Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Water...

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Water...

    Public water systems goal is to provide clean potable water to its consumers. I've been to the local plant and they treat the sewer & release the treated effluent into the river. It then travels to a lake that is used as the town of ABC's reservoir. That lakewater is then treated & pumped to the tanks/distribution system.

    The goal at the first treatment plant is to get it as clean as possible ie. as close to clean water as possible. This leads to my question.

    If the goal is to make the water clean, then wouldn't a higher concentration of clean water make this easier? If everything was not lower flow (toilets, aerators, showerheads, etc.) then more water would be with the polluted effluent making it "less polluted". Does using low flow fixtures just decrease the volume to make things more manageable (less volume) for municipalities?

    All matter stays here, it just changes form. What do you think?

    J.C.

  • #2
    Re: Water...

    "If the goal is to make the water clean, then wouldn't a higher concentration of clean water make this easier? If everything was not lower flow (toilets, aerators, showerheads, etc.) then more water would be with the polluted effluent making it "less polluted". Does using low flow fixtures just decrease the volume to make things more manageable (less volume) for municipalities? "

    JC, It has been my experience that the major component of the treatment of municipal waste is the settling process ( Retention Ponds ect...). Treatment is a function of time along with the processes used. Since there is a specific amount of time required to treat a gallon of effluent at a given facility you than have that facilities capacity.

    Effluent concentration is not yet an issue that I am aware of even with low flow ( A gallon of water can hold alot of waste in suspension).

    Growth is out stripping current municipalities effluent treatment capacity in volume. The easiest solution is to reduce usage / production if you are not going to control growth...

    Another major point to consider though it is not often mentioned is that we are not only outstriping current facilities treatment capabilities we are also outstriping the current infrastructures ( pipes, liftstations ect...) ability to move the waste to the plants.

    Repair and upkeep of the current average municipal waste system is management by crisis due to limited funding. Preventative maintenance is non existent. So existing systems over time will also need to be de-rated if the status quo does not change...

    The easy solution is to reduce how much ellluent you are placing in the system.

    I hope this helped

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Water...

      According to the experts, raw sewage straight from the toilet is 99% water. Don't know how true this is but this is what I was taught during water treatment class.
      Last edited by gear junkie; 05-27-2008, 07:58 PM. Reason: remembered it right
      Buy cheap, buy twice.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Water...

        Yummy, I think we need to do something with all that waste water, I would like to see more saved then we already do!

        Sadly, here they just dump it in the ocean and add tot he salt water after it is treated, some is pumped back to water the city fields and such.

        We need to do all we can to save water, I saw a fire hydrant knocked off today, sadly all that water is going to waste, 20' in the air.

        on top of that, the city workers drive around and run the hydrants weekly, all that water goes right down the drain too!
        sigpic

        Robert

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Water...

          every journey begins with that first step, we as plumbers understand and realize what it takes to allow anything that consumes water to operate properly we also know that the average consumer usually dosen't give a crap about where or what the water does as long as it leaves there house, the sad thing is the law makers that seem to wear so many hats that what ever the flavor of the moment is then that is what is on the table and that is the crap they shovel down our throats. if they want pertinent info and relevant info on how to conserve water and not compromise functionality, talk to us in the field convene a board of plumbers, there are alot of us in the field that are pretty smart and know water real well and could probably help all move forward instead of a bunch of water downed horse sh#T that some politician farts out because it sounds good.[ i will go take my meds now]

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Water...

            Industrial Water and waste treatment is what we specialize in. The reality is we as a nation have a serious water shortage developing. Historically, monitored water tables nation wide are dropping and have been for the last forty years. This is the primary reason for the low flow toilets, restricted shower heads and faucets.

            Sewage treatment as a science is a pretty simple process and requires very little water to accomplish, and actually does not take a lot of time from when it enters the plant to when it is pumped out. The plants only concern is to treat the water to a "gray" state and get it back into the system, ie river or ocean. I am very leery of "gray water" being dumped into a river which flows into a reservoir. To many bad variables in the equation.

            For example the Waste Water treatment plant in Huntington Beach, CA is now taking the "Gray Water"and running it through a serious of Reverse Osmosis units, re-chlorinating it and then sending up stream along the Santa Ana River, (some 20 miles) where it is being dumped into a holding dam, where it is then re-released into the Santa Ana river. There it flows back towards the plant and is caught in seepation burm’s that are bulldozed in the river bed. The main goal is to allow the water to seep back into the ground water supply, using the earth as a final natural filter.
            If I lived in an area as you described where the treated sewage water is floated back into the main water supply I would probably have several forms of water treatment at my house. At minimum a Reverse Osmosis drinking system and possibly a UV or Ozone generator on the incoming line.

            On another note we could easily solve the water shortage in this country if we could just get the "fish Kissers" to lay off conventional progress. The easiest solution would be for Ocean States, for example California, to build Desal plants and then provide water to surronding thirsty states.
            Last edited by Watersurgeon; 05-27-2008, 08:40 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Water...

              Originally posted by Watersurgeon View Post
              Industrial Water and waste treatment is what we specialize in. The reality is we as a nation have a serious water shortage developing. Historically, monitored water tables nation wide are dropping and have been for the last forty years. This is the primary reason for the low flow toilets, restricted shower heads and faucets.

              Sewage treatment as a science is a pretty simple process and requires very little water to accomplish, and actually does not take a lot of time from when it enters the plant to when it is pumped out. The plants only concern is to treat the water to a "gray" state and get it back into the system, ie river or ocean. I am very leery of "gray water" being dumped into a river which flows into a reservoir. To many bad variables in the equation.

              For example the Waste Water treatment plant in Huntington Beach, CA is now taking the "Gray Water"and running it through a serious of Reverse Osmosis units, re-chlorinating it and then sending up stream along the Santa Ana River, (some 20 miles) where it is being dumped into a holding dam, where it is then re-released into the Santa Ana river. There it flows back towards the plant and is caught in seepation burm’s that are bulldozed in the river bed. The main goal is to allow the water to seep back into the ground water supply, using the earth as a final natural filter.
              If I lived in an area as you described where the treated sewage water is floated back into the main water supply I would probably have several forms of water treatment at my house. At minimum a Reverse Osmosis drinking system and possibly a UV or Ozone generator on the incoming line.

              On another note we could easily solve the water shortage in this country if we could just get the "fish Kissers" to lay off conventional progress. The easiest solution would be for Ocean States, for example California, to build Desal plants and then provide water to surronding thirsty states.
              Brings me to another question. Why or how can the water table drop every year for the last 40 years. One of the LAWS of science is that all matter stays here on earth, but can only change form.

              So, where did the water go?

              Or should I look for a Science Forum?

              J.C.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Water...

                Originally posted by Watersurgeon View Post

                On another note we could easily solve the water shortage in this country if we could just get the "fish Kissers" to lay off conventional progress. The easiest solution would be for Ocean States, for example California, to build Desal plants and then provide water to surronding thirsty states.
                sounds great, but we need lots of power for that.

                havn't built a nuclear reactor here since the late 70's.

                in fact the large desalination plant at catalina island is now owned by edison power.

                rick.
                phoebe it is

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Water...

                  I can easily see a future where the existing water pipes are used to supply houses with non potable treated water for showering toilet flushing, clothes washing and a new seperate water line installed only for potable drinking and cooking water.

                  We do not need to use potable water for many of the daily tasks we currently use it for.

                  It is going to have to happen at some point...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Water...

                    Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                    Brings me to another question. Why or how can the water table drop every year for the last 40 years. One of the LAWS of science is that all matter stays here on earth, but can only change form.

                    So, where did the water go?

                    Or should I look for a Science Forum?

                    J.C.
                    I believe it has a lot to do with what I had posted earlier. Some water uses recharge our aquifers while others use it all. Now add to the fact that the demand is growing exponentially and you will see the water table drop.

                    I recall reading recently the water in the aquifers in Orange County, California had such a large demand due to agricultural needs many years ago that the clean water in the aquifers was replaced with salt water as far as 5-miles from the beach. I may be wrong but I don't believe the clean water will ever come back to that part of the aquifer.

                    Mark
                    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Water...

                      Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                      Brings me to another question. Why or how can the water table drop every year for the last 40 years. One of the LAWS of science is that all matter stays here on earth, but can only change form.

                      So, where did the water go?

                      Or should I look for a Science Forum?

                      J.C.
                      deep jc i almost wonder if we are all somewhat responsible, weve screwed with everything else why not science. quote from a very funny movie [ rules we dont need no sticking rules]. hope this helps jc

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Water...

                        Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                        Brings me to another question. Why or how can the water table drop every year for the last 40 years. One of the LAWS of science is that all matter stays here on earth, but can only change form.

                        So, where did the water go?

                        Or should I look for a Science Forum?

                        J.C.
                        Because people are using it up and the water infiltration doesn't meet the demand. This is the first I've heard of a 40 year cycle, can you go further in depth?
                        Buy cheap, buy twice.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Water...

                          Originally posted by OkieBill View Post
                          I can easily see a future where the existing water pipes are used to supply houses with non potable treated water for showering toilet flushing, clothes washing and a new seperate water line installed only for potable drinking and cooking water.

                          We do not need to use potable water for many of the daily tasks we currently use it for.

                          It is going to have to happen at some point...
                          Absolutely. I think the same. The discussion here is that private grey water systems will one day be Code.

                          J.C.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Water...

                            Originally posted by aero1 View Post
                            deep jc i almost wonder if we are all somewhat responsible, weve screwed with everything else why not science. quote from a very funny movie [ rules we dont need no sticking rules]. hope this helps jc
                            I think it's "Badges, we don't need no stinking badges."

                            J.C.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Water...

                              Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                              sounds great, but we need lots of power for that.

                              havn't built a nuclear reactor here since the late 70's.

                              in fact the large desalination plant at catalina island is now owned by edison power.

                              rick.
                              Hence my comment about the Fish Kissers.

                              Your right about the power, it takes a lot. We have two perfectly good Reactors at San Onofre that are in the process of being decommissioned, all because of environmentalist. Here is a funny side note about San Onofre. Reactor one, which was the first one was decommissioned a few years ago. The reactor is still sitting their, even though the dome has been torn down and most of the support structure removed. The reactor was incased in its concrete and lead coffin and was going to be moved down the 5 freeway to Las Pulgas rd. at Camp Pendleton. At that point the Sea Bees were going to build a pier into the ocean where a specially equipped barge would haul it to South Carolina. Turns out the reactor now ways so much that the 5 freeway where it crosses Old Pacific Coast Highway cannot support the weight. So the Marines stepped up to the plate and said, "No Problem" we will move the reactor down San Onofre State Beach on to the base beach and to Los Pulgas. Guess what when the environmentalist found out they put a stop to it because they said it would kill the Sand Dabs. Oh, and to ad insult to injury. Panama now says it can't be hauled through the Canal, and its way to dangerous to haul around the cape. So there it sits for ever, and ever and ever.

                              On a side note about Catilina’s plant. That was actually build by the developer of the condo complex that went in 80's just north of the city. It was his conditional use requirement to get the permits.
                              Water is so sparse on Catilina that almost every home and business has two water supplies coming into them. Fresh and Salt. Salt is used for toilets, washing etc... Fresh is for potable only. At one time there was a commercial laundry service to support the island, located on the south end of the island, but because of the water issues they went out of business, so now all commercial laundry has to be barged in/out.
                              Last edited by Watersurgeon; 05-27-2008, 09:25 PM.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X