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Not another T&M-Flat Rate discussion--I think

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  • Not another T&M-Flat Rate discussion--I think

    Just tell me if these definitions are accurate and If not, give me a concise description- about the same length- that is.

    T & M: Your cost (direct labor and overhead) + profit.
    Flat Rate: Your possible cost (projected direct labor and overhead)+ profit.
    "Man will do many things to get himself loved, he will do all things to get himself envied." Mark Twain

  • #2
    Re: Not another T&M-Flat Rate discussion--I think

    Sounds close enough to right to me.

    J.C.

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    • #3
      Re: Not another T&M-Flat Rate discussion--I think

      Its very simple actually. I have done both ways for many years and I prefer flat-rate hands down.

      T&M: I'll charge you for however long it takes me to do it.

      Flat-rate: I'll charge you X no matter how long it takes me to do it.


      That is the only difference. I think both methods have their merits.
      Water Heater Reviews & Water Heater Information

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      • #4
        Re: Not another T&M-Flat Rate discussion--I think

        T&M -

        Pro - covered regardless what happens, I get paid for my time
        Con - Customer staring over my shoulder, looking at watch and asking why it takes so long to replace a shower valve as I burn my self distracted by question while soldering.

        Flat rate -

        Pro - The better & more efficient I get at specific tasks, the more money I make in less time.
        Con - "That seems like alot of money for a 15 minute job to replace my kitchen sink."

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        • #5
          Re: Not another T&M-Flat Rate discussion--I think

          great point ducks! nice way to put it.
          sigpic

          Robert

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          • #6
            Re: Not another T&M-Flat Rate discussion--I think

            you cant win, so charge what works best for you, who gives a rip what the other guy charges, the name of the game is profit if you know your expenses[if your in business youd better] your good to go. oh yeh every job is 15 min to a customer,like i tell them a good part of what you pay for is knowledge,there are a lot of damn fools out there doing alot of stupid things,so that along with piece of mind is the best insurance i can offer any client. this aint no charity so charge to stay in business let the other guys give it away, they wont last,they never do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
            Last edited by aero1; 05-29-2008, 09:29 PM.

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            • #7
              Re: Not another T&M-Flat Rate discussion--I think

              Originally posted by aero1 View Post
              you cant win, so charge what works best for you, who gives a rip what the other guy charges, the name of the game is profit if you know your expenses[if your in business youd better] your good to go. oh yeh every job is 15 min to a customer,like i tell them a good part of what you pay for is knowledge,there are a lot of damn fools out there doing alot of stupid things,so that along with piece of mind is the best insurance i can offer any client. this aint no charity so charge to stay in business let the other guys give it away, they wont last,they never do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

              Granted, those are good points and very true.

              But, I don't want to get a profit, motive, who's right or wrong or why discussion going here. I want to know if those definitions I first presented are correct or if you or someone has better ones.

              I like Service Guy's definition except for the Flat rate one you might add "no matter how long, or short, it takes me."
              "Man will do many things to get himself loved, he will do all things to get himself envied." Mark Twain

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              • #8
                Re: Not another T&M-Flat Rate discussion--I think

                Originally posted by aero1 View Post
                you cant win, so charge what works best for you, who gives a rip what the other guy charges, the name of the game is profit if you know your expenses[if your in business youd better] your good to go. oh yeh every job is 15 min to a customer,like i tell them a good part of what you pay for is knowledge,there are a lot of damn fools out there doing alot of stupid things,so that along with piece of mind is the best insurance i can offer any client. this aint no charity so charge to stay in business let the other guys give it away, they wont last,they never do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                I'd mentiuoned that because it happened to me yesterday on the phone.
                I quoted my labor rate to replace his disposal (his purchased Kenmore)..he started negotiating, told me it wouldn't take me more than 15-20 minutes and he shouldn't have to pay me for any more time than that.
                I specifically asked him to please call someone else.
                The job would be 45 minutes each way in travel alone.
                Sometimes I'm tempted to lower my rates per hour, go T & M and make a day out of simple tasks..."Sorry it took five hours to change the stem...I had to readjust the seats, torque the ..er..."valve adjustments" and realign the...er... "ports"...yeah thats it...lots of problems'.
                Heck, works for mechanics....right?

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                • #9
                  Re: Not another T&M-Flat Rate discussion--I think

                  Originally posted by SlimTim View Post
                  Granted, those are good points and very true.

                  But, I don't want to get a profit, motive, who's right or wrong or why discussion going here. I want to know if those definitions I first presented are correct or if you or someone has better ones.

                  I like Service Guy's definition except for the Flat rate one you might add "no matter how long, or short, it takes me."
                  I apologize for the rant.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Not another T&M-Flat Rate discussion--I think

                    Had a old lady call me today.....sound like she was on the verge of crying.....wanting a estimate from a licensed plumber......asking for a favor............?


                    She left a message and I just could not bring myself to call her back.......just because I've been down that road of


                    You all know.........shouldn't have to repeat it.


                    I felt it was best to just not return the call and let things go on like the first 38 years of my life have been with her......non-existent. Gotta keep that tradition goin ya know?!
                    Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

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                    • #11
                      Re: Not another T&M-Flat Rate discussion--I think

                      Originally posted by DUNBAR View Post
                      Had a old lady call me today.....sound like she was on the verge of crying.....wanting a estimate from a licensed plumber......asking for a favor............?


                      She left a message and I just could not bring myself to call her back.......just because I've been down that road of


                      You all know.........shouldn't have to repeat it.


                      I felt it was best to just not return the call and let things go on like the first 38 years of my life have been with her......non-existent. Gotta keep that tradition goin ya know?!
                      Your luck, tomorrows Front page headline "Eccentic old millionaire hires plumber to install boiler to heat her home, tips him $20K"

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                      • #12
                        Re: Not another T&M-Flat Rate discussion--I think

                        Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                        I apologize for the rant.
                        I hope you feel better now.
                        "Man will do many things to get himself loved, he will do all things to get himself envied." Mark Twain

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                        • #13
                          Re: Not another T&M-Flat Rate discussion--I think


                          IF YOU HAVE TO ASK THE PRICE THEN YOU CAN'T AFFORD ME
                          JERRYMAC
                          E-MAILJERRYMAC777@GMAIL.COM
                          CALIF. LIC. PLBG,HEAT,DRAINS,ELECTRIC,WATER HEATER, BOILER, POOL AND SPA HEATER
                          FIRE SPRINKLER CONTRACTOR,
                          SINCE JAN. 1989

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                          • #14
                            Re: Not another T&M-Flat Rate discussion--I think

                            Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                            I'd mentiuoned that because it happened to me yesterday on the phone.
                            I quoted my labor rate to replace his disposal (his purchased Kenmore)..he started negotiating, told me it wouldn't take me more than 15-20 minutes and he shouldn't have to pay me for any more time than that.
                            I specifically asked him to please call someone else.
                            The job would be 45 minutes each way in travel alone.
                            Sometimes I'm tempted to lower my rates per hour, go T & M and make a day out of simple tasks..."Sorry it took five hours to change the stem...I had to readjust the seats, torque the ..er..."valve adjustments" and realign the...er... "ports"...yeah thats it...lots of problems'.
                            Heck, works for mechanics....right?
                            know what you mean, its like remeber that old game show lets make a deal, behind curtain number 1 is me leaving, it does gets old.............
                            Last edited by aero1; 05-30-2008, 11:00 PM.

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