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  • Another Contractor!!!!

    Just called one of my contractors to see how my competition did.

    I think I told you about the Job where the Homeowner used me through my general to set the homeowner's contractor's price 20% lower than his original TO MATCH mine after I gave them 4 hours researching and drawing up a proposal.

    This is what they got.
    1. Burned wood
    2a. Dog balls on every joint(not one wiped)
    2b.Not a sraight piece of pipe in the place.
    2c.Pipe uninsulated where secured to wood(tick,tick,tick)
    3. Laborers working unsupervised(company owner only showed to ink job)
    4. Shower valves and stub outs not secured properly and crooked through future tile.
    5. Tub/Shower valves not centered(oh,there was some wood in the way)
    6. My favorite..Cutting 8" out of a floor joist and not telling anyone leaving an obvious/serious flex in the floor that would damage flooring.

    This is what they got for my price.Guess I need to raise them even more to balance their lack of interest/quality

    There you go guys and gals.Your licensed contractor.

    These guys think they are installing per industry standards...IDIOTS!!!!

    ADAM

    P.S. HE WAS A WHITE AZZ

  • #2
    Re: Another Contractor!!!!

    Do you have a link to a thread where you told us this. I missed it and just curious.

    Sorry to hear about what happened

    Got any pictures?
    YourHomeContractor.com - The Trusted Online Community For Homeowners and Contractors.

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    • #3
      Re: Another Contractor!!!!

      I'm confused. The homeowner got a BETTER price from you, milked you for information and then turned around and used another plumber, but used your price to drive their price down, and then the end result is garbage work....am I close here?

      If so... serves them right for stealing your time.
      Water Heater Reviews & Water Heater Information

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      • #4
        Re: Another Contractor!!!!

        Originally posted by Service Guy View Post
        I'm confused. The homeowner got a BETTER price from you, milked you for information and then turned around and used another plumber, but used your price to drive their price down, and then the end result is garbage work....am I close here?

        If so... serves them right for stealing your time.
        I was a bit confused, too. But, I didn't get the whole story beforehand.

        Also, if that's the case (the way you said it), it does serve them right!
        YourHomeContractor.com - The Trusted Online Community For Homeowners and Contractors.

        Plumbing Reviews

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        • #5
          Re: Another Contractor!!!!

          Adam,

          It bites to be beat out of a job but it sure is rewarding when the job turns out poorly. We have all been through it and it never feels good.

          Years ago we had a friend do really well on a book she wrote. So well she decided to build a multi-million dollar home for her family. Her father was a retired GC and was running the job. As she knew we specialized in multi-million dollar estates she had me bid the job. I gave her a great price for what would have been a great job. Instead her father found a guy in the Antelope Valley who beat me by 60%. I warned her but she was afraid to question her dad.

          After she moved in she had me out to look at the problems her "plumber" could not fix. Pipes were undersized and back graded, hot and colds were reversed and nothing was strapped. I spent a couple of hours explaining to her what floors and ceilings would have to be torn out then I left. She begged me to come back and make the repairs but I told her we were too busy to help her out. The plumbing was never really fixed right and it bothered her enough she sold the home and built another one which I did not bid.

          Mark
          "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

          I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

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          • #6
            Re: Another Contractor!!!!

            Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
            Adam,

            It bites to be beat out of a job but it sure is rewarding when the job turns out poorly. We have all been through it and it never feels good.

            Years ago we had a friend do really well on a book she wrote. So well she decided to build a multi-million dollar home for her family. Her father was a retired GC and was running the job. As she knew we specialized in multi-million dollar estates she had me bid the job. I gave her a great price for what would have been a great job. Instead her father found a guy in the Antelope Valley who beat me by 60%. I warned her but she was afraid to question her dad.

            After she moved in she had me out to look at the problems her "plumber" could not fix. Pipes were undersized and back graded, hot and colds were reversed and nothing was strapped. I spent a couple of hours explaining to her what floors and ceilings would have to be torn out then I left. She begged me to come back and make the repairs but I told her we were too busy to help her out. The plumbing was never really fixed right and it bothered her enough she sold the home and built another one which I did not bid.

            Mark
            Lose, lose
            You come off like a used car salesman when you try to explain why you cannot go down on price.
            You sound like your rubbing it in when you explain what they did wrong after the fact.

            Just off the phone this afternoon with a fella who had two bids on a boiler aside from mine, I matched the other high bid, the third bid was scarefully lower.
            I tried to explain that at the price the low guy was bidding, there's something wrong...he seems covinced I can shave the price.

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            • #7
              Re: Another Contractor!!!!

              Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
              Lose, lose
              You come off like a used car salesman when you try to explain why you cannot go down on price.
              You sound like your rubbing it in when you explain what they did wrong after the fact.

              Just off the phone this afternoon with a fella who had two bids on a boiler aside from mine, I matched the other high bid the other was scarefully lower.
              I tried to explain that at the price the low guy was bidding, there's something wrong...he seems covinced I can shave the price.
              That was the only reason I went to look at the job and she already knew it was really screwed up. The water hammer was so bad you didn't hardly want to flush the water closet. Add to that that when you did you ruined the Kohler ballcock with hot water.

              When I bid I am generally within 10% of everyone else. When someone comes in at 40% of my bid there is a reason for it.

              Mark
              "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

              I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

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              • #8
                Re: Another Contractor!!!!

                Originally posted by Service Guy View Post
                I'm confused. The homeowner got a BETTER price from you, milked you for information and then turned around and used another plumber, but used your price to drive their price down, and then the end result is garbage work....am I close here?

                If so... serves them right for stealing your time.
                See,you nailed it.Got a set of bags?

                "Come to the dark side Luke"


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                • #9
                  Re: Another Contractor!!!!

                  I guess you need to raise your prices Adam. (maybe you'll get more work! Reverse psychology! )

                  I'll admit, one big reason I like service better than construction is that I don't have to bid for my work. Customer calls me on a Saturday, "We called 5 plumbers before you and none of them answered the phone!" I go out there and charge my price, and I could care less what the other guys charge, since they didn't bother to even answer the phone, they can't compete!
                  Last edited by Service Guy; 06-02-2008, 11:38 PM.
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                  • #10
                    Re: Another Contractor!!!!

                    Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                    Lose, lose
                    You come off like a used car salesman when you try to explain why you cannot go down on price.
                    You sound like your rubbing it in when you explain what they did wrong after the fact.

                    Just off the phone this afternoon with a fella who had two bids on a boiler aside from mine, I matched the other high bid, the third bid was scarefully lower.
                    I tried to explain that at the price the low guy was bidding, there's something wrong...he seems covinced I can shave the price.
                    Differentiate, differentiate, differentiate - You can't explain why you can't cut the price until you are building something that is different than whatever the weenie competition is building. Zoning, more warranty, better materials, super duper widgets, whatever - and preferably two or three things that are different. Even on something as straight forward as a water heater: pro-press instead of flex; add a P&T drain if it doesn't have one (assuming it isn't already required in your area); instant hot water in the master bath; under sink leak prevention survey. There is always a way to differentiate!
                    spodelee

                    Until lions have their own storytellers, stories of the hunt shall always glorify the hunter

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                    • #11
                      Re: Another Contractor!!!!

                      Originally posted by spodelee View Post
                      Differentiate, differentiate, differentiate - You can't explain why you can't cut the price until you are building something that is different than whatever the weenie competition is building. Zoning, more warranty, better materials, super duper widgets, whatever - and preferably two or three things that are different. Even on something as straight forward as a water heater: pro-press instead of flex; add a P&T drain if it doesn't have one (assuming it isn't already required in your area); instant hot water in the master bath; under sink leak prevention survey. There is always a way to differentiate!
                      Spent ten minutes on the phone "differentiating".
                      These are the jobs that can actually drag you down if you succomb to the thinking that your price is only higher for profit.
                      Best to just let some go.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Another Contractor!!!!

                        That has always been a problem, one guy bids on apples and another on oranges. You have to sell the customer the job, explain the job, the warranty, the difference in materials, and most important is the SERVICE after the sale. I ask upfront if the are looking only for the cheapest price to get by or do they want a good job at a fair price with SERVICE when they need it. If they want the cheapest price I leave them a card, Thank them for calling and wish them good luck in their search. Every now and then one will get back to me and I will sell them the right job and SERVICE after the sale. Service is the bread and butter and installs are the gravy. If you cant get the right price let someone else f**k it all up.
                        WE LIVE IN THE LAND OF THE FREE,
                        ONLY BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE

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                        • #13
                          Re: Another Contractor!!!!

                          My first job out of college was working as DM for Chemed Chemicals, a div. of Grace ent.

                          My division VP taught me my very first lesson of business. He said,
                          "Regardless of the profession your in, your a salesman first and your trade second. When you understand that concept you will be a success in anything you do."

                          People ask me if I am a plumber, or water treatment contractor, and I tell them, "Nope, first I am a salesman then the descipline that I am bidding on, water or plumbing."

                          First guy I worked for in water treatment was an idiot business person. He would allow people to grind him on price, provide services to people that were constantly late on there monthly rentals. I finally sat him down and coined this phrase, which I use and instill with all our staff.

                          "Something of Nothing, is simply NOTHING" Why are you willing to do business with someone that makes you NO money!

                          In other words you as a business person, your a sales person first, you had better know what your price point, profitability, operating costs, etc... are and you have to be willing to walk away from any job that does not meet your min. needs and that includes contracts and the people that are hiring you.

                          Here's a good example. I have a substantial repair project that we bid out quite some time ago. It's a couple hundred thousand and has the margins we need in it to make it profitable. The quote floated from desk to desk in this corporation. Finally someone decided to go forth with it. So we were sent a 40 page corporate contract and basically asked to sign it blindly. All never forget the phrase that was used, "Come on, go ahead and sign it, just think of it as a taking a leap of faith"

                          I know better. The first thing that happened was one copy was sent to my lawyer, and another copy to my insurance broker. I disected a third copy. Three months later and about a dozen revisions we finally came to an agreement that I consider a "win-win".

                          I stood my ground and was willing to walk from the project, something I have done in the past.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Another Contractor!!!!

                            How in the hell did that house ever pass an inspection ???
                            I have found that the lowball contractors never last they will seem to make money as long as there is a high volume of work but as soon as things slow down a bit they are in debt bigtime
                            Have had many times where I have been asked to match a lowball contractors bid but I always refuse to do it. I always get a kick out of it when the contractor realizes he is spending more time and money taking care of problems caused by poor plumbing.
                            If you cant make money doing a job might as well stay at home.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Another Contractor!!!!

                              Originally posted by Watersurgeon View Post
                              My first job out of college was working as DM for Chemed Chemicals, a div. of Grace ent.

                              My division VP taught me my very first lesson of business. He said,
                              "Regardless of the profession your in, your a salesman first and your trade second. When you understand that concept you will be a success in anything you do."

                              People ask me if I am a plumber, or water treatment contractor, and I tell them, "Nope, first I am a salesman then the descipline that I am bidding on, water or plumbing."
                              I was a wee frustrated in my last response to you with the "differentiate" comment.
                              You're 100% correct.
                              There's a VAST difference between the misconceptions of what a salesman is, and what a good salesman really is.

                              I know a guy that tried self employment and thought "selling" meant doing what he beleived the proverbial used car salesman does.
                              It worked very well, he was constantly working, until the threat of a law suit.

                              He got called on finish stock he'd used, despite promises of the best quality, he cut some corners and she refused to settle with what he supplied.
                              He was "smart" by not detailing it in writing, but finally settled out of court to avoid the longterm losses of bad exposure and the possibilty of losing in court.

                              Embellishing, exaggerating or verballing misleading customers while cutting corners will land you in a boatload of trouble at the end of the job.

                              I forgot about my post on this thread...
                              The guy called me back a couple of days ago and asked me why my labor was about the same, yet my stock was higher than the other bids.
                              I reiterated what I'd told him before about cutting corners, that I could easily score the job by giving him what he wants...then just ignore the calls, or inform them the warranty is up in a year when things start leaking or not working right.

                              I offered to cut stock costs and gave him options, he stayed with my price...I got the job.

                              Just thought I'd thank you for the reminder, sometimes I allow frustration to veer my frame of mind off course.
                              For that reason, this forum rocks!

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