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Epoxy Coating of copper H2O pipes?

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  • #16
    Re: Epoxy Coating of copper H2O pipes?

    Not only have I researched it I have watched it, I have documented it, I have read the warranties and I have seen the failures. I would suggest the HouseDoctor use DuraFlow on his homes as he seems pleased with the band-aid approach. I will continue to recommend real solutions to my clients.

    Mark
    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Epoxy Coating of copper H2O pipes?

      Yet another charlitan attempts to walk among the gods.
      sigpic

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Epoxy Coating of copper H2O pipes?

        Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
        Not only have I researched it I have watched it, I have documented it, I have read the warranties and I have seen the failures. I would suggest the HouseDoctor use DuraFlow on his homes as he seems pleased with the band-aid approach. I will continue to recommend real solutions to my clients.

        Mark
        Bar none, this is the ONE person I'd listen to regarding failed systems or products.
        It's what he does for a living.

        Comment


        • #19
          Hello everyone!

          My name is Mr. ACE. I am a technical advisor at the corporate office of ACE DuraFlo Systems, LLC. in Irvine, California. House Doctor informed me that I should share the knowledge that I have of our technology with you all of you.

          We have been serving commercial & residential property owners for over 10 years. We hold four patents on our technology and several more are pending. We are approved by every organization that oversees plumbing in the United States. We have never been denied permission to perform pipe restoration in any jurisdiction within the Unites States. We did not “buy” our approvals. We earned every one through rigorous demonstration of the durability and the safe nature of our epoxy, as well as the system that we use to apply it. For anyone to state otherwise is plain irresponsible. Our system is highly regulated and we set the bar in the pipe restoration industry for quality on every level.

          Our epoxy formula is proprietary to ACE DuraFlo Systems, LLC and has been accelerated life tested to last 75-100 years. This is not a “Band-aid” in any way shape or form. ToUtahNow might also appreciate the fact that the U.S. military has performed pipe restoration on everything from aircraft carriers to military barracks for 30+ years. Also, thank you for your service to our great Country, Sir.

          We hold a NSF (National Sanitation Foundation) Standard-61 approval indicating that our epoxy has been tested to be safe for use in potable water systems.

          I.A.P.M.O. (International Association of Plumbing & Mechanical Officials) tested and approved our process for durability.

          We are listed with the U.P.C. (Universal Plumbing Code) & I.C.C. (International Code Counsel) and are approved to epoxy coat Kytec, Pex, PVC and other non-metallic pipes, as they too are failing prematurely.

          We are a member of the U.S. Green Building Counsel because of the lack of debris deposited in the landfill, compared to a conventional repipe as well as several other factors.

          We are accepted in over 400 jurisdictions throughout the U.S.A., including Concord, NH. Others will follow as we grow to service more areas. NHMASTER3015’s statement that his state does not allow pipe restoration was unintentionally false.

          We restore copper pipes that are failing or are at risk of failing due to water chemistry, velocity and poor workmanship. We also restore encrusted galvanized pipes that retain sufficient integrity; some of these pipes were in historical buildings constructed in the 20’s.

          PLUMBER RICK, the truck you refer to belongs to a former franchisee of ours that purchased his franchise to restore 30 apartment buildings that he owns. He is no longer affiliated with our system. I sincerely apologize for his transgression and I appreciate your bringing this to our attention. We will work with the owner to rectify the problem as soon as possible.

          We ensure that all of our franchisees are licensed plumbers, are bonded and insured, and are held in high regard as a reputable company in their community before we approach them to be a franchisee. We have franchises throughout the U.S.A. and more recently, Spain.

          The “Black Eye’s” in the face of the pipe restoration industry that you mention are most certainly the result of certain companies that struggle to meet our highly refined system of pipe restoration. We pride ourselves on our overwhelming customer satisfaction and, in cases where one of our franchises has a “bump in the road” we are always there to support them in attaining complete customer satisfaction. That is our number one goal.

          The cost of pipe restoration is competitive to the cost of a repipe in all markets. The benefit to our customers is in the fact that we are a clean, fast, and permanent solution to failing water supply lines without the cost of replacing the finishes associated with a repipe.

          I hope I didn’t fail to address any important concerns listed in this thread. I will check in from time to time to answer more questions as they arise. You can also email me directly through this website. I appreciate all of your involvement in helping me address and correct the misunderstandings that obviously exist. Thank you all very much.

          Sincerely,

          Mr. ACE
          Last edited by Mr. ACE; 06-10-2008, 04:23 AM. Reason: edited for accuracy

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Epoxy Coating of copper H2O pipes?

            Originally posted by Mr. ACE View Post
            The cost of pipe restoration is competitive to the FINAL COST of a repipe in all markets. The benefit to our customers is in the fact that we are a clean, fast, and permanent solution to failing water supply lines.

            well i am not a plumber and i have never claimed to be (but i do have a plunger) but if it costs roughly the same as a repipe, well shucks, give me new pipes
            9/11/01, never forget.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Epoxy Coating of copper H2O pipes?

              Okay... Feel free to pay the extra cost to re-paint, re-tile and re-stucco while trying to match the color & texture after you repipe. Please realize that the best plumbing system in the world in an epoxy coated metallic plumbing system in the foundation of the home. Overhead (attic) re-piping means warm water from a cold tap in the summer, cold water from the hot tap in the winter and a beautiful indoor waterfall when it does fail.

              Perhaps you will reconsider your viewpoint after reading some of Dr. Marc Edwards research at Virginia Tech? Dr. Edwards studies the root cause of water supply line failure in the U.S. and performs experiments involving the longevity of all types of available pipes, including the epoxy coated metallic variety. I hope you find his work to be a valuable source of information.

              To learn more, please visit:
              http://www.wssc.dst.md.us/copperpipe...l_research.cfm
              http://www.corrosionsource.com/discu...ML/000012.html
              or perform a google/yahoo search for Dr. Marc Edwards.

              Thank you all again for your time and input.


              Sincerely,


              Mr. ACE
              Last edited by Mr. ACE; 06-10-2008, 03:17 AM.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Epoxy Coating of copper H2O pipes?

                Links to ACE DuraFlo Systems Video Clips:

                2" I.D. Clear Plumbing Mock-up as Performed for L.A. City Plumbing Inspectors in early 2000:
                http://youtube.com/watch?v=ftMec3HW5Xw

                CH-7 News Clip:
                http://youtube.com/watch?v=WotKvpc-5ms

                Animation Clip:
                http://youtube.com/watch?v=-zTEQIfQO9U

                www.aceduraflo.com

                Sincerely,

                Mr. ACE

                "It's the difference that us apart"

                Air Dried
                Cleaned
                Epoxy Coated

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Epoxy Coating of copper H2O pipes?

                  Can I interest you in a bidet?

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Epoxy Coating of copper H2O pipes?

                    There is no question there is a market for systems like ACE Duraflo. I just do not believe it is the fix all which some claim it is. I have seen too many projects which had problems and zero savings. As for matching textures I just don't see that as an issue when you are using skilled craftsman.

                    How long is the warranty on an ACE Duraflo system and what does it cover?

                    When/if my pipe leaks does Ace Duraflow pay for repairs to the walls in making the new repair?

                    If I have my home remodeled can the plumber simple cut a tee into the coated pipes to run the new line?

                    What happens if you are coating my old galvanize pipe and there is a section you can not clean and/or seal and you have to open my walls is the wall repair still included in the price?

                    Finally, do you think it is appropriate for a large corporation like yours to use another corporations Web Site for marketing purposes?

                    Mark
                    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Epoxy Coating of copper H2O pipes?

                      mr. ace, i again spent 30 minutes on your company web site.

                      everything points to copper pin holes and copper pipe epoxy coating.

                      are you currently epoxy coating gal. water pipe.

                      what percentage of jobs are copper and what percentage are galvanized steel?

                      please keep in mind current #'s for the past year or 2.

                      not what your original plan was from day 1.

                      who pays for repairing holes that your epoxy doesn't seal?

                      also explain how you can control the amount of corrosion removal from gal steel pipe as the wall thickness and corrosion thickness greatly varies throughout the entire piping system.

                      copper stays very uniform in the patina coating.

                      have you signed any contracts with the los angeles unified school district that has come under fire for lead in the drinking water?

                      if so, how many?

                      if not why?

                      rick.
                      phoebe it is

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Epoxy Coating of copper H2O pipes?

                        mark, what time did you wake up?

                        i guess i need to get up 12 minutes earlier

                        rick.
                        phoebe it is

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Epoxy Coating of copper H2O pipes?

                          We are accepted in over 400 jurisdictions throughout the U.S.A., including Concord, NH. Others will follow as we grow to service more areas. NHMASTER3015’s statement that his state does not allow pipe restoration was unintentionally false.

                          Gee one city in the entire state, and it's only provisionally approved. I don't see an IPC approval on your list. That would back out quite a bit of territory. A whole lot of crap has passed nsf over the years including polybutelyne.

                          Again, In 35 plus years I have seen a whole lot of this type of product come and go. When copper pipe begins to pin hole and deteriorate the wall get thinner and thinner and I have a real hard time believing a coating of epoxy is going to restore the tensile strength of the pipe. Not to mention the reduction of flow rate due to a decrease in interior dimension. There are also reports of puddling of the epoxy in vertical to horizontal fittings leading to a drastic reduction in flow. Sorry, I'm just not buying this. Are your franchise holders licensed plumbers? If not they need to be. Read the plumbing code carefully. Upc or IPC
                          sigpic

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Epoxy Coating of copper H2O pipes?

                            Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                            We are accepted in over 400 jurisdictions throughout the U.S.A., including Concord, NH. Others will follow as we grow to service more areas. NHMASTER3015’s statement that his state does not allow pipe restoration was unintentionally false.

                            Gee one city in the entire state, and it's only provisionally approved. I don't see an IPC approval on your list. That would back out quite a bit of territory. A whole lot of crap has passed nsf over the years including polybutelyne.

                            Again, In 35 plus years I have seen a whole lot of this type of product come and go. When copper pipe begins to pin hole and deteriorate the wall get thinner and thinner and I have a real hard time believing a coating of epoxy is going to restore the tensile strength of the pipe. Not to mention the reduction of flow rate due to a decrease in interior dimension. There are also reports of puddling of the epoxy in vertical to horizontal fittings leading to a drastic reduction in flow. Sorry, I'm just not buying this. Are your franchise holders licensed plumbers? If not they need to be. Read the plumbing code carefully. Upc or IPC
                            I believe he stated they are in fact licensed Plumbing Contractors. I can also tell you I was told by one of the franchisees I could make a lot of money by using my licenses to qualify for one of their franchisees. I'm sure some are qualified and some have others qualifing for them. When I did a Contractor's search of one of the franchisees a couple of years ago there was quie a trail which finally lead back to Irvine.

                            Mark
                            "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                            I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Epoxy Coating of copper H2O pipes?

                              Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                              Can I interest you in a bidet?
                              Oh no! Please, can I? Mine is gift wrapped
                              I love my plumber

                              "My Hero"

                              Welcome, Phoebe Jacqueline!

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Epoxy Coating of copper H2O pipes?

                                Originally posted by MrsSeatDown View Post
                                Oh no! Please, can I? Mine is gift wrapped
                                Um...I was tryin' to hook ya up.

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