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Epoxy Coating of copper H2O pipes?

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  • Epoxy Coating of copper H2O pipes?

    Had a appointment with a Customer that just happened to have a suspected slab leak. She had called a company Ace Duraflo for an in house estimate. The salesman was there while I was working, so I got to hear a little of the pitch. It sounded pretty intriguing and theoretically perfect. Fix the problem without reroute, no distruction and done in a day. I asked the rep how the pipe was cleaned prior to treatment and he showed me a vile of "corundum", which I read is a form of aluminium oxide. the corundum is used under air pressure to sandblast the ID of the copper pipes. I asked him about the inspection process afterward, but he stated that there really isn't one (how can there be?). They follow a procedure that works well in the lab (controlled environment). I don't know how well it works in the real world.

    I was wondering if anyone here has had recent experience with this procedure and what your take on it is. I told my Customer that I'd try to do some homework and get back to her.

  • #2
    Re: Epoxy Coating of copper H2O pipes?

    My experience is it cost more than a repipe in copper and is a band-aid solution.

    Mark
    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Epoxy Coating of copper H2O pipes?

      There was a thread on this topic not 6 months ago if I recall.
      Alotta negatives came up, like diameter constriction & price.
      I imagine it has applications when demo would cost enough to make it worthwhile, but I don't imagine many code jurisdictions would approve it.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Epoxy Coating of copper H2O pipes?

        There is a company here in Wisconsin that does the relining, They have state approval for the process. I personally do not like the idea of taking away work from plumbers.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Epoxy Coating of copper H2O pipes?

          I have been in construction for about 12 years and I’m familiar with epoxy coating H2O pipes. Here is what I know & how I learned about it:

          A few years ago I had 3 pinhole leaks in my copper pipes in 3 months time. I did some research online to find out why my 15 year old pipes were failing. It was a long story, but in the end, it was the water that caused it. While researching this, I also found articles about epoxy coating failing copper, galvanized & plastic pipes. After asking my friends in the business about it and thoroughly researching the technology on the internet, I decided to have my pipes epoxy coated by Ace Duraflo in Orange County, California. Trust me, I was as skeptical as they come… Here is what made me decide on this solution.

          Their company website www.aceduraflo.com and youtube.com has several video news clips on the process and a video demo showing how the epoxy coats the entire interior surface of the pipe. They have a long list of commercial & residential references. I called a few, even the Biltmore Hotel in L.A., and everything checked out. They are approved by IAPMO, NSF, UPC, ICC and local plumbing codes. I also read that it has been used in Europe for over 30 years and tested to last beyond 50. That was enough for me to at least get a quote.

          The cost of repiping my house with new copper pipes was about the same as coating them. However, after I added up the cost of repainting the walls that would need to be opened & the tile that would have to be replaced in order to repipe, I figured I saved about 20%. I got a life time warranty on the entire system, they were done in a day and a half, they were clean, and best of all, I haven’t had any leaks.

          Since then I have come across more customers with pinhole leaks in copper pipes than I can shake a stick at. Most of the time, I replace the failing section of pipe and then advise them to call Ace Duraflo. My local Ace Duraflo pays me a $100 referral fee and they knock $100 off their price for my customer. They actually do that for all customers who refer friends & family. Word of mouth is their number one form of advertising and I can see why. They did a great job for me and my customers. I figure there is plenty of work for me without needlessly turning someone’s home into a construction site in order to repipe it.



          I hope this helps and thank you for reading.
          Last edited by HouseDoctor; 06-07-2008, 10:33 AM. Reason: changed it to is

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          • #6
            Re: Epoxy Coating of copper H2O pipes?

            Arrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggggggggg......
            sigpic

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Epoxy Coating of copper H2O pipes?

              Doing a bit of reading on this technology leads me to believe that Homedoctor's experience is limited to his market and area.

              I have seen a few prices for this system that have raised my eyebrows and would not be cheaper than a traditional repipe ( at least in my area).

              I would consider this technology on a case by case basis and not make any sweeping assumptions about it..

              In the last 4 years I have never had a homeowner/ residental repipe replace copper with copper... Waaay to expensive now... PEX almost always

              The jury is still out on the epoxy hardners used in most and unof these systems as far as health risks and leech rates.

              Currently these systems are unregulated which is just asking for trouble...

              I hate to say it but just about anything can get an approval from the various plumbing bodies for the right price.....

              Just my 2 cents
              -

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Epoxy Coating of copper H2O pipes?

                Yes he is in one of the markets I am in and with drywall and paint copper is still cheaper and last longer in my opinion. I was on a project where they were repiping 750 units and one of the bids was from Ace Duraflow. After 10-bids including PEX and Copper the HOA went with Copper as the cheapest yet most premium repair. A sister project went with Duraflow and is now thinking about repiping in Copper because of leaks after the job was done. On another project in another area Ace Duraflow was unable to finish the job after several days so the franchise owner had to repipe in PEX.

                Mark

                BTW: I also question whether the commisssion for finding the job plus the kick back to the HO is legal in California.
                "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Epoxy Coating of copper H2O pipes?

                  i know there is one of their trucks that parks by my local freeway entrance.

                  unless they only work late nights the truck sits more than it drives.

                  the roof has been torn back from a tree or low entry for months.

                  something not right with this situation.

                  and their main focus was to restore gal. pipe. they no longer do gal pipe as it was more of an issue than they were able to properly accomplish.

                  do your homework

                  rick.
                  phoebe it is

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Epoxy Coating of copper H2O pipes?

                    Sniff...sniff...I smell something...it's...it's...a salesman.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Epoxy Coating of copper H2O pipes?

                      I would pass on this. My cupboard is fully stocked with snake oil.
                      sigpic

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Epoxy Coating of copper H2O pipes?

                        It's pretty obvious to me that, while many plumbers on this thread claim they have researched the information they share, they really have not. There are several inaccuracies that I won’t waste my time addressing. All I can suggest to home owners is to research the facts on the ACE DuraFlo process for yourself. Then you will see why some plumbers make negative, unfounded and uneducated statements about pipe restoration in general. They are simply afraid of change and unwilling to learn about advancements in their own industry. An ostrich with it’s head in the sand comes to mind.

                        The truth is, smart plumbers typically want to become franchise owners when they take the time to read all of the facts. If I was a plumber instead of a general contractor and Orange County, CA wasn’t already tied up, I know I would be first in line to start restoring pipes for my customers.

                        Thank you & good luck to you all!
                        Last edited by HouseDoctor; 06-09-2008, 01:54 PM. Reason: Removed Font Listings

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Epoxy Coating of copper H2O pipes?

                          Originally posted by HouseDoctor View Post
                          It's pretty obvious to me that, while many plumbers on this thread claim they have researched the information they share, they really have not. There are several inaccuracies that I won’t waste my time addressing. All I can suggest to home owners is to research the facts on the ACE DuraFlo process for yourself. Then you will see why some plumbers make negative, unfounded and uneducated statements about pipe restoration in general. They are simply afraid of change and unwilling to learn about advancements in their own industry. An ostrich with it’s head in the sand comes to mind.

                          The truth is, smart plumbers typically want to become franchise owners when they take the time to read all of the facts. If I was a plumber instead of a general contractor and Orange County, CA wasn’t already tied up, I know I would be first in line to start restoring pipes for my customers.

                          Thank you & good luck to you all!

                          how many months do you keep a company work truck parked on the street with 1/3 of the roof torn off

                          #1 until it gets ticketed

                          #2 until it gets towed

                          #3 all of the above

                          what happened to relining gal. water pipe

                          fact or fiction

                          who do you believe now

                          rick.

                          #4 until you find work for it and move it off the public street.
                          Last edited by PLUMBER RICK; 06-09-2008, 02:50 PM. Reason: #4 more choices
                          phoebe it is

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Epoxy Coating of copper H2O pipes?

                            What a unique concept!
                            I'm gonna start offering to pour latex paint down customers pipes for a few thousand dollars with the help of a compresser, then tell experienced plumbers they don't know what they're talking about when they object.
                            I suspect that post number 2 was his last post.

                            If he does come back, I'm wanna know if he's looking to sell the truck....

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Epoxy Coating of copper H2O pipes?

                              Originally posted by HouseDoctor View Post
                              It's pretty obvious to me that, while many plumbers on this thread claim they have researched the information they share, they really have not. There are several inaccuracies that I won’t waste my time addressing. All I can suggest to home owners is to research the facts on the ACE DuraFlo process for yourself. Then you will see why some plumbers make negative, unfounded and uneducated statements about pipe restoration in general. They are simply afraid of change and unwilling to learn about advancements in their own industry. An ostrich with it’s head in the sand comes to mind.

                              The truth is, smart plumbers typically want to become franchise owners when they take the time to read all of the facts. If I was a plumber instead of a general contractor and Orange County, CA wasn’t already tied up, I know I would be first in line to start restoring pipes for my customers.

                              Thank you & good luck to you all!
                              Are you a licensed plumber? I'll bet not. Do you have over 35 years of plumbing experiance? Probably not. Have you seen these miracal products come and go? Not too many I bet. Well I have and so have most of us on this site. My state flat out refuses to allow epoxy coating of any kind. When I Google Duraflow all I get is ad after ad after ad. Almost nothing on the product. The Duraflow web site is nothing more than an infomercial that tells me nothing. So HouseDoctor, why don't you fill us all in here and tell us what we're missing. And try to keep the discussion technical because that's what we understand. Not a bunch of paid testimonials from so called happy customers. Give us the facts. Give us the cost vs pex or copper. Give us something other than SNAKE OIL
                              sigpic

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