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  • #16
    Re: Water hammer/ expansion tank

    But why does it operate without any hammer if the expansion tank is removed?

    J.C.

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    • #17
      Re: Water hammer/ expansion tank

      And why does it happen when opening the valve?

      J.C.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Water hammer/ expansion tank

        and now we know what 5000 psi will do to expansion tanks on steam units........thanks honey
        sigpic

        Robert

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        • #19
          Re: Water hammer/ expansion tank

          Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
          But why does it operate without any hammer if the expansion tank is removed?

          J.C.
          I think he has too much air in teh tank, causing some of the excess push...
          Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
          And why does it happen when opening the valve?

          J.C.
          ...when he opens the valve so quickly.


          Its a combination of fast-acting valves and the heavy air-pressure in the expansion tank pushing back.
          Water Heater Reviews & Water Heater Information

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          • #20
            Re: Water hammer/ expansion tank

            Thanks Carl, that's one of those experience tips that I haven't ran into that will help me troubleshoot in the future.

            J.C.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Water hammer/ expansion tank

              Originally posted by Service Guy View Post
              I think he has too much air in teh tank, causing some of the excess push...


              ...when he opens the valve so quickly.


              Its a combination of fast-acting valves and the heavy air-pressure in the expansion tank pushing back.
              I agree with this. Most expansion tanks are preset to 40psi.
              Buy cheap, buy twice.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Water hammer/ expansion tank

                Originally posted by Service Guy View Post
                I think he has too much air in teh tank, causing some of the excess push...


                ...when he opens the valve so quickly.


                Its a combination of fast-acting valves and the heavy air-pressure in the expansion tank pushing back.
                My money's on that...bleed out maybe 10-15 psi from the tank & I bet the trouble stops.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Water hammer/ expansion tank

                  Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                  Thanks Carl, that's one of those experience tips that I haven't ran into that will help me troubleshoot in the future.

                  J.C.
                  You're welcome. Troubleshooting is my favroite part of plumbing...its why I do service exclusively. I haven't done any new rough-ins in years. They bore me to death. Give me a weird problem to solve and I am in heaven!

                  Today had a weird noise vibrating all throughout someone's house. It took me about 2 minutes to find the source....old PRV. Too easy.
                  Water Heater Reviews & Water Heater Information

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                  • #24
                    Re: Water hammer/ expansion tank

                    Thanks for all replys! I hate to go to traditional hosebibs after talking up the ones I installed , my customers love em, I'm a hero. According to the installation instructions the air pressure is supposed to to the same as incoming water pressure but I also will take to heart the suggestion of lowering air pressure. Washing machines are not connected yet but I should simulate with the valves installed (Soiux Chief Ox Box w/ arrestors) good point.

                    Thanks,wookie

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Water hammer/ expansion tank

                      Originally posted by mrs. westcoast View Post
                      Water hammer is a pressure surge or wave resulting when a fluid in motion is forced to stop or change direction suddenly (Momentum Change). Water hammer commonly occurs when a valve is closed suddenly at an end of a pipeline system, and a pressure wave propagates in the pipe.
                      These are bellows type expansion joints taken from a medium-pressure (150-300 psi) steam line. They have been destroyed due to steam-generated water hammer, probably in excess of 5000 psi.
                      Water hammer in a steam system should not be confused with domestic water-water hammer. Water hammer in steam occurs when steam hits condensate and flashes into water. There is a big difference. By the way that is a great example of the force of water hammer....er.....in a steam system

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                      • #26
                        Re: Water hammer/ expansion tank

                        Originally posted by Masterplumb View Post
                        Water hammer in a steam system should not be confused with domestic water-water hammer. Water hammer in steam occurs when steam hits condensate and flashes into water. There is a big difference. By the way that is a great example of the force of water hammer....er.....in a steam system


                        Thats the un paid employee for west coast plumbing who posted that picture....and she wonders why she is "un-paid".....





                        kidding, she is great at marketing and web site design!!!!
                        sigpic

                        Robert

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                        • #27
                          Re: Water hammer/ expansion tank

                          Originally posted by westcoastplumber View Post
                          Thats the un paid employee for west coast plumbing who posted that picture....and she wonders why she is "un-paid".....





                          kidding, she is great at marketing and web site design!!!!
                          I have one of those un-paid workers too. I was thinking of firing her but Id rather not give up half of everything, including my spleen

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Water hammer/ expansion tank

                            any fast acting valve will create a surge. wait till he tries his washing machine and automatic sprinklers.

                            the ada ball valve hose bibbs are great. i always warn my customers to open slow and close slow.

                            i give them the same example as when they pull up to a stop light with their car. no putting the pedal to the metal and no slamming on the breaks. they get the idea

                            un fortunately putting a vacuum breaker on those hose bibbs really choke down the flow.

                            there are newer arrowhead hose bibbs with an internal vacuum breaker that flows better and doesn't chatter. it can be identified by its yellow handle. the vac breaker is in the stem assy

                            rick.
                            phoebe it is

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                            • #29
                              Re: Water hammer/ expansion tank

                              Originally posted by Masterplumb View Post
                              I have one of those un-paid workers too. I was thinking of firing her but Id rather not give up half of everything, including my spleen
                              I think it is ok to go ahead and give up your whole spleen Hey it's a bidding tool
                              I love my plumber

                              "My Hero"

                              Welcome, Phoebe Jacqueline!

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Water hammer/ expansion tank

                                Well, went back today and as suggested by Service Guy and others I reset the air pressure 5psi lower no change, lowered 10psi and NO water hammer! Before going out I called Amtrol expansion tank tech support and they confirmed that lowering air psi should solve the problem. Still haven't wrapped my head around what happened but problem solved.

                                If incoming water pressure is 60psi and expansion tank is 60psi there should be no water in tank to surge when opening full port hosebib. I did tap on the expansion tank when in service and it sounded empty to me. I understand that quick closing can result in water hammer??? Opening other valves caused no problems, they're on 1/2" lines just the 3/4" lines.

                                Again thanks for the help. I don't post much but I'm here reading almost everyday. Just bought a new K-39af and a used Marco w/ 5/8" Gorlitz cable so i'll be asking more ? i'm sure!

                                wookie

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