Announcement Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.
Product Reliability Concerns Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse
X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Product Reliability Concerns

    Thursday I stopped in at a supply house and caught my delta rep, in the act, fondling what looked like why are you thinking dirty thoughts right now, shame on you!



    He was fondling what was the "new" design of all delta faucets that are single handle.


    Prepare yourselves for this....

    All plastic, fuse welded PEX supply lines that are built into a base plate design.

    Now HOW are you going to flex those lines to reach your valves and HOW are you going to keep those from kinking, let alone not getting cut when in contact with the cutouts for stainless steel? Hmmmm???!!!

    Anyway, they are going to eliminate the pivot ball assembly, the camber and seat cups and springs.

    All gone, no more. Just one neat looking clear assembly that looks like something Wolverine Brass would make that is the use of ceramc surface against a diamond smooth finish.


    Me and two guys behind the counter tore into this guy about pricing, reliability, the repair costs now, everything.

    The reason for all this is because in CA or whereever, they are enacting a code where absolutely no lead will be found in plumbing materials.

    He mentioned CA so I guess that's where it all starts and they stated they have to comply to this standard.

    IF, and a big IF.....if the PEX tube gets damaged, or the connector plate leaks for whatever reason because the cartridge isn't mating with the rest, the faucet is junk.

    I can promise you right now, this will not be a faucet that will see 30 years like the older versions,

    this is a product that's designed intentionally to fail soon enough. Those PEX lines will be pulled or bent into positions that will either kink at the base or even better, collapse given the varying angles and locations where the end user will try to move them to.



    Delta, once again you are leaving something that's worked for years, all to have a product that will have a history of following the heap of cheap.
    Last edited by DUNBAR PLUMBING; 08-17-2008, 07:47 PM.
    Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

  • #2
    Re: Another disappointment in regards to product reliability

    When you mention lead and CA, it makes me wonder if it has anything to do with large amounts of lead found in school water fountains. There was a report on it years ago and apparently the schools did nothing about it. Within the last six months there was a huge news expose on it. I wonder if this was part of the agreed upon solution.

    It can all be coincidental too.
    I love my plumber

    "My Hero"

    Welcome, Phoebe Jacqueline!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Another disappointment in regards to product reliability

      I used to like delta, but this news is disappointing.

      I am a Kohler man all the way. Excellent products in today's market. Beautiful and well-built.
      Water Heater Reviews & Water Heater Information

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Another disappointment in regards to product reliability

        Originally posted by DUNBAR View Post
        Thursday I stopped in at a supply house and caught my delta rep, in the act, fondling what looked like why are you thinking dirty thoughts right now, shame on you!



        He was fondling what was the "new" design of all delta faucets that are single handle.


        Prepare yourselves for this....

        All plastic, fuse welded PEX supply lines that are built into a base plate design.

        Now HOW are you going to flex those lines to reach your valves and HOW are you going to keep those from kinking, let alone not getting cut when in contact with the cutouts for stainless steel? Hmmmm???!!!

        Anyway, they are going to eliminate the pivot ball assembly, the camber and seat cups and springs.

        All gone, no more. Just one neat looking clear assembly that looks like something Wolverine Brass would make that is the use of ceramc surface against a diamond smooth finish.


        Me and two guys behind the counter tore into this guy about pricing, reliability, the repair costs now, everything.

        The reason for all this is because in CA or whereever, they are enacting a code where absolutely no lead will be found in plumbing materials.

        He mentioned CA so I guess that's where it all starts and they stated they have to comply to this standard.

        IF, and a big IF.....if the PEX tube gets damaged, or the connector plate leaks for whatever reason because the cartridge isn't mating with the rest, the faucet is junk.

        I can promise you right now, this will not be a faucet that will see 30 years like the older versions,

        this is a product that's designed intentionally to fail soon enough. Those PEX lines will be pulled or bent into positions that will either kink at the base or even better, collapse given the varying angles and locations where the end user will try to move them to.



        Delta, once again you are leaving something that's worked for years, all to have a product that will have a history of following the heap of cheap.
        We are seeing the same thing on the HVAC side. Manufacturers are building everything to a disposable standard. Fits right into today's disposable society. Manufacturers have figured out that long term product quality doesn't really matter anymore because with good marketing, they can sell anything! Plus, people forget or move-on in 5-8 years anyway. Just junk, junk, junketie junk



        Great for service companies though!

        spodelee

        Until lions have their own storytellers, stories of the hunt shall always glorify the hunter

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Another disappointment in regards to product reliability

          Originally posted by MrsSeatDown View Post
          When you mention lead and CA, it makes me wonder if it has anything to do with large amounts of lead found in school water fountains. There was a report on it years ago and apparently the schools did nothing about it. Within the last six months there was a huge news expose on it. I wonder if this was part of the agreed upon solution.

          It can all be coincidental too.
          Nagh, I don't buy the lead excuse. It's about making the product cheaper and every other manufacturer will soon follow.
          spodelee

          Until lions have their own storytellers, stories of the hunt shall always glorify the hunter

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Another disappointment in regards to product reliability

            Originally posted by spodelee View Post
            We are seeing the same thing on the HVAC side. Manufacturers are building everything to a disposable standard. Fits right into today's disposable society. Manufacturers have figured out that long term product quality doesn't really matter anymore because with good marketing, they can sell anything! Plus, people forget or move-on in 5-8 years anyway. Just junk, junk, junketie junk



            Great for service companies though!

            Removed a 16 yr old State water heater last year.
            You won't see a State heater last that long again.
            Last edited by DuckButter; 07-20-2008, 08:28 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Another disappointment in regards to product reliability

              That is terrible news, we stock and install Delta. I bet we change to another brand.

              While blaming California sounds nice I would bet the volatility in the metal market and profit has more to do with it.
              Anyone can tear a man down, few can build one up.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Another disappointment in regards to product reliability

                I have an entire case of Phoenix faucets at the shop. They are totally plastic. Not one single piece of metal on them except for the two screws that hold the handles on. they cost wholesale $ 2.65 ( I got them free ) The funny thing is, they actually work and look pretty good. I think you are going to start finding a whole lot more faucets coming through with either pex or pex adaptors already installed on them.
                sigpic

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Another disappointment in regards to product reliability

                  Originally posted by Service Guy View Post
                  I used to like delta, but this news is disappointing.

                  I am a Kohler man all the way. Excellent products in today's market. Beautiful and well-built.
                  The thing I dont like about Kohler faucets is their braided supply lines that cant be removed. When I install a pedestal sink I like to use ridgid basin supplies.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Delta Faucet Diamond Seal Technology

                    Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                    I have an entire case of Phoenix faucets at the shop. They are totally plastic. Not one single piece of metal on them except for the two screws that hold the handles on. they cost wholesale $ 2.65 ( I got them free ) The funny thing is, they actually work and look pretty good. I think you are going to start finding a whole lot more faucets coming through with either pex or pex adaptors already installed on them.


                    That's a blast from the past.


                    I installed 2 handle kitchen sink and lav faucets that were made by Phoenix back in 1985.

                    I used them solely for the poor folks; if they couldn't afford $14 for the faucet and my charges of $38/hour......something really wrong with them.

                    Yep, I was el-cheapo plumber back in 85'. Eeeeeeeeeeverybody calling me....I was the idiot giving out the cheap services. Idiot!
                    Last edited by DUNBAR PLUMBING; 08-17-2008, 07:48 PM.
                    Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Delta Faucet Diamond Seal Technology

                      Originally posted by MrsSeatDown View Post
                      When you mention lead and CA, it makes me wonder if it has anything to do with large amounts of lead found in school water fountains. There was a report on it years ago and apparently the schools did nothing about it. Within the last six months there was a huge news expose on it. I wonder if this was part of the agreed upon solution.

                      It can all be coincidental too.
                      Don't know but he referenced to some statute that is in CA referring to lead and it's final removal.


                      Wouldn't be easy just to not use lead in the damn soldered connections? Noooooooooo that wouldn't be prudent.


                      I swear, this assembly looks as bad as it sounds, really.

                      Calcium is horrible on these parts and it's like anything else plastic........

                      when it ages it gets hard and brittle. You won't be doing rebuilds on these faucets that get any mileage in years...I just don't see it happening.


                      Just look at Delta's products now. Chrome plastic bodies, no chrome on brass.


                      The guy swore up in down that delta is not going to touch their shower valve bodies, Do you really believe that? I can see that being plastic someday as well.
                      Last edited by DUNBAR PLUMBING; 08-17-2008, 07:46 PM.
                      Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Another disappointment in regards to product reliability

                        Originally posted by DUNBAR View Post
                        That's a blast from the past.


                        I installed 2 handle kitchen sink and lav faucets that were made by Phoenix back in 1985.

                        I used them solely for the poor folks; if they couldn't afford $14 for the faucet and my charges of $38/hour......something really wrong with them.

                        Yep, I was el-cheapo plumber back in 85'. Eeeeeeeeeeverybody calling me....I was the idiot giving out the cheap services. Idiot!
                        A local mobile home supply went tits up and gave me cases of lav faucets, tub faucets and even plastic lavs. I turned around and donated them to the school. They are great for the kids because you just don't give a crap when they break them.
                        sigpic

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Another disappointment in regards to product reliability

                          I'd be REALLY surprised if they changed their tub/shower valves to plastic bodied. For one, they just changed everything over to their universal valve system. Brass body with cartridge. Great system in my opinion. Makes it alot easier when a customer wants that special color trim.

                          Plus with a hidden valve behind a wall being plastic they would be looking at alot of potential lawsuits. AND WE WOULD ALSO. The valve would fracture and Delta-in turn-would blame the installer saying they tightened something too much.

                          I'll quit before I have to put in a plastic bodied tub/shower valve.

                          J.C.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Another disappointment in regards to product reliability

                            Originally posted by Tyman View Post
                            That is terrible news, we stock and install Delta. I bet we change to another brand.
                            Any ideas on another brand? Other than Kohler!

                            Maybe Delta is looking to sell these all plastic faucets to the big box home stores and market the real fausets through real plumbing contractors... OK just kidding.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Another disappointment in regards to product reliability

                              We have been giving Wolverine Brass a shot. We recently purchased a few single handle lav. faucets, single handle & two tub/shower faucets.

                              I have seen mixed reviews on W.B., so I'm not holding my breath. We are also not considering Kohler due to the massive amount of repair parts we would have to stock, although I think they have nice designs.

                              Today I put in a customer supplied Price Phister aka Black and Decker tub/shower valve in. It clogged up almost immediately and I had to take it apart and clean it. The ports are very small.

                              I know Delta has been downsizing their plant here in Indiana big time.
                              Anyone can tear a man down, few can build one up.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X