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Copper getting thinner?

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  • #16
    Re: Copper getting thinner?

    Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
    Sorry but you guys are just imagining the difference in wall thickness. The letter designation is based on an ASTM Standard which lists the thickness. If the tubing is a different thickness it would have to use a letter other than those already assigned.

    Mark
    You're 100% correct on thickness.
    A thing to ponder, unless you know the answer...
    In lieu of Bens weighing the two pieces, are there any regs on purity?
    Maybe the older copper had something mixed into it that weighs more or the new copper has something lighter mixed in.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Copper getting thinner?

      Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
      Not imagination. Who enforces the ASTM Standard in manufacturing facilities? Unless someone is calipering/weighing etc. right on the line and there independent of the company, you can trust that they will start to shave material.

      J.C.
      In reference to my post above, a softer alloy might appear thicker as it would mushroom more with a tubing cutter...

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Copper getting thinner?

        Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
        You're 100% correct on thickness.
        A thing to ponder, unless you know the answer...
        In lieu of Bens weighing the two pieces, are there any regs on purity?
        Maybe the older copper had something mixed into it that weighs more or the new copper has something lighter mixed in.
        Also for the weight, is it possible there is crud that built up on the inside of the pipe?

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Copper getting thinner?

          Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
          You're 100% correct on thickness.
          A thing to ponder, unless you know the answer...
          In lieu of Bens weighing the two pieces, are there any regs on purity?
          Maybe the older copper had something mixed into it that weighs more or the new copper has something lighter mixed in.
          Isn't copper copper? White gold is man made and fluctuates, but does copper? There is hard tempered and soft tempered copper, but isn't it the same material just manufactured differently?
          I love my plumber

          "My Hero"

          Welcome, Phoebe Jacqueline!

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Copper getting thinner?

            Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
            You're 100% correct on thickness.
            A thing to ponder, unless you know the answer...
            In lieu of Bens weighing the two pieces, are there any regs on purity?
            Maybe the older copper had something mixed into it that weighs more or the new copper has something lighter mixed in.
            99.9%

            Mark
            "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

            I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Copper getting thinner?

              Originally posted by cpw View Post
              Also for the weight, is it possible there is crud that built up on the inside of the pipe?
              Patina.

              Mark
              "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

              I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Copper getting thinner?

                Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                Not imagination. Who enforces the ASTM Standard in manufacturing facilities? Unless someone is calipering/weighing etc. right on the line and there independent of the company, you can trust that they will start to shave material.

                J.C.
                There is both annual and random testing. If it were discovered a manufacturer was manufacturing a thinner tube then what is allowed there could be a recall of all of the copper tubing including that which has already been installed. The cost savings of the thinner copper piping would pale in comparison to the cost of the recall. In addition the manufacturer would lose their listing and no longer be allowed to manufacture copper tubing.

                Mark
                "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Copper getting thinner?

                  Originally posted by cpw View Post
                  Also for the weight, is it possible there is crud that built up on the inside of the pipe?
                  Leave it to the computer programmer...I think you nailed it.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Copper getting thinner?

                    Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                    99.9%

                    Mark
                    I may be wrong, but when you over heat copper and it becomes annealed and something draws out of the metal, which is why it gets softer.
                    I'm guessing that whatever it is, it only accounts for 1/10th of a percent of the makeup by your figure.
                    Or ....I need to learn more about what actually happens in the annealing process.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Copper getting thinner?

                      Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                      I may be wrong, but when you over heat copper and it becomes annealed and something draws out of the metal, which is why it gets softer.
                      I'm guessing that whatever it is, it only accounts for 1/10th of a percent of the makeup by your figure.
                      Or ....I need to learn more about what actually happens in the annealing process.
                      Both hard and soft copper are 99.9% copper but the soft copper has been heated in ovens to 1300 degrees.

                      Mark
                      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Copper getting thinner?

                        Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                        ben, when you said "old" did you mean unused old stock? No, I mean pipe that I removed because I relocated the WH. The water heater was 21 years old as it had "installed by UT3 Escajeda 2/10/81" in permanent marker. The old pipe I weighed came off the t/p valve so it had no crud or patina.

                        can you possibly weigh a full 20' / 10' section of old stock. and new stock.

                        make sure that you stand it vertical and support it to keep it from falling over. not to take the weight off. Tried like you said and the weight was still the same.

                        do you have access to a certified scale like used in a market? I probably do but that's a lot of extraness. I used my digital kitchen scale that measure in 1/8 of an oz.

                        i guess we could always do like the fishing boats.

                        ben, i need you to make a balance beam and suspend both sections from an equally spaced balance beam. do you have a 18' a frame ladder
                        Got a 17' little giant but once again it's alot of work. Feeling kinda lazy today.
                        rick.
                        I've only seen mueller copper sold here nibco fittings) but this copper was reading which I never heard of before.
                        Buy cheap, buy twice.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Copper getting thinner?

                          Copper's getting thinner? Wish the wife was
                          sigpic

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                          • #28
                            Re: Copper getting thinner?

                            Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                            Copper's getting thinner? Wish the wife was
                            She's probably thinking the same about you.
                            Buy cheap, buy twice.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Copper getting thinner?

                              I believe that the 99.9% purity number does not hold true anymore...

                              I can't back it up except from having handled the stuff for the last 15 years ( both refer and plumbing copper). The handling characteristics and the color has changed.

                              I believe that suppliers are alloying(sp?) the copper products now. I would love to know if ASTM pulls true random samples for testing...

                              10% alloy would be tuff to tell and would go a long way on a company balance sheet...

                              How many of your copper fittings have China or Korea stamped on them?

                              Just a thought...

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Copper getting thinner?

                                And copper tubing from Brazil & Mexico. Is ASTM going there? Don't know. Sent an email to them to get details. I'll post what they reply.

                                J.C.

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