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Copper getting thinner?

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  • #31
    Re: Copper getting thinner?

    Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
    And copper tubing from Brazil & Mexico. Is ASTM going there? Don't know. Sent an email to them to get details. I'll post what they reply.

    J.C.
    only copper which is certified to ASTM is approved for use in the United States under both UPC and IPC. For $80 you can buy the Standard online or you could go to the CDA and they pretty much cover everything.

    Mark
    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

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    • #32
      Re: Copper getting thinner?

      Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
      only copper which is certified to ASTM is approved for use in the United States under both UPC and IPC. For $80 you can buy the Standard online or you could go to the CDA and they pretty much cover everything.

      Mark
      Not interested. What is interesting to me is your insistence that people touching the product on the standards on which you keep quoting say it's thinner are wrong. So go ahead and quote me another standard, citation, place to buy it, procedure, approval process etc. All the pipe & fittings we get with the stamps are definitely up to the required quality. None of us ever get bad fittings or pipe. It's not possible. Because it's been approved by ASTM, ASSME, etc. That writing on them is what matters.

      Not the product or the peoples opinion using it.

      J.C.

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      • #33
        Re: Copper getting thinner?

        If you have a micrometer you could put the question to rest. I just checked a bunch of my stuff and it is all thicker than minimum spec but within tolerance, made in Canada

        Specs listed here

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        • #34
          Re: Copper getting thinner?

          Well I did exactly that cause I got access to a machine shop right next door. Took some old 3/4 L that has been in my to use but never do pile and some brand new 3/4 L and miked them both. There is a slight difference, about 1 1/2 thousands but both are within astm tolerances.
          sigpic

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          • #35
            Re: Copper getting thinner?

            How old is the old stuff?
            Buy cheap, buy twice.

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            • #36
              Re: Copper getting thinner?

              Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
              Well I did exactly that cause I got access to a machine shop right next door. Took some old 3/4 L that has been in my to use but never do pile and some brand new 3/4 L and miked them both. There is a slight difference, about 1 1/2 thousands but both are within astm tolerances.
              If I were you, I'd be camped next door.
              Was a machinist for a few years back almost 20 years ago, loved the work, fascinated with metals, alloys and properties.
              Got out cause the pay sucked.

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              • #37
                Re: Copper getting thinner?

                i just was at our local hardware store and measured some new 3/4'' type l copper from mueller. the i.d. is .788 the od is .875 that's a difference of .087 so the wall thickness would be . 0435.

                now all i have to do is go to my shop and dig up some old, new stock and compare.

                i think the real test would be better between the brands of copper.

                rick.
                phoebe it is

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                • #38
                  Re: Copper getting thinner?

                  well I can't carbon date it but I'd bet at least 15 years old by the color of it.

                  The machine shop is the classroom right beside mine so it's very handy. I go in there a fiddle with stuff often.
                  sigpic

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                  • #39
                    Re: Copper getting thinner?

                    Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                    i just was at our local hardware store and measured some new 3/4'' type l copper from mueller. the i.d. is .788 the od is .875 that's a difference of .087 so the wall thickness would be . 0435.

                    now all i have to do is go to my shop and dig up some old, new stock and compare.

                    i think the real test would be better between the brands of copper.

                    rick.
                    Without an inside & outside micrometer you won't get accurate readings.
                    Those tools account for the radius.
                    Though a vernier might give a reasonably close reading.

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                    • #40
                      Re: Copper getting thinner?

                      Just a hammer ape over here, but is it possible that with the rising prices of the metals it was worth it to the manufacturers to get much more accurate in the production? Maybe before they would err noticeably on the side of caution, but now it's even more worth it to save the extra and be closer to tolerance.

                      Just a theory, the main hole I see in it being that manufacturers would probably have been doing it all along as even when metal was much cheaper it would still be significant cost cutting.




                      Eli
                      Last edited by woodenstickers; 08-03-2008, 03:04 PM.
                      A good carpenter makes few mistakes, a great carpenter can fix his own.

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                      • #41
                        Re: Copper getting thinner?

                        Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                        Without an inside & outside micrometer you won't get accurate readings.
                        Those tools account for the radius.
                        Though a vernier might give a reasonably close reading.
                        good call on the micrometer.

                        but i did use a vernier caliper.

                        my buddy has a precision machine shop and i'll see him tonight for dinner.

                        you can all thank his dad for the very first automatic bagel machine and the very first folding ping pong table. although he sold the rights to the folding ping pong table, he still was the original brains behind it's design.

                        my buddy is even more anal in his precision and when i measure it at his place, you can take my word it's within a 1/2 a thousandths.

                        typically us plumbers tend to work in 1/8ths. of an inch and that's our precision.

                        i'll post the numbers once i dig up some old and new stock. it also should be the same brand to show consistency over the years.

                        rick.
                        phoebe it is

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                        • #42
                          Re: Copper getting thinner?

                          I actually took the pipes, cut them in half the long way, flattened them and used a starrett micrometer. Close enough for me.

                          I like the vinyl siding guys. A 1/4 is close enough.
                          sigpic

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                          • #43
                            Re: Copper getting thinner?

                            I worked predominantly on military parts.
                            Worked to within 1/50,000,000th on a piece to a guidance system once.

                            At that tolerance, even the room temperature has to be strictly controlled.

                            A vernier will give a relatively close measurement, but they have a tendancy to have more yield depending on the amount of force exerted on them....the user.

                            The 1/2 thousandth is likely not quite that accurate....not with verniers at least.

                            Machining is one hell of an interesting trade, I don't even think we have tools quite so obscure, or expensive.

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                            • #44
                              Re: Copper getting thinner?

                              Our Tech Ctr is getting a new 5 Axis CNC machine next year. Can't wait to screw around on that for a while.
                              sigpic

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                              • #45
                                Re: Copper getting thinner?

                                Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                                Our Tech Ctr is getting a new 5 Axis CNC machine next year. Can't wait to screw around on that for a while.
                                I used to program/operate a slant 12...combo machining & lathing NC machine with bar feed.
                                At the time it was worth about 1/2 mil.
                                Whatever ya do...DON'T smack anything with the turret while messing with that bad larry...

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