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  • #31
    Re: Other Forum gives me the Boot

    Originally posted by spodelee View Post
    I wise man once reminded me that it is important not to waste energy on battles that can't be won, but rather spend your energy on those battles that can be won,
    Very well said, your post was to the point but this comment stuck out the most.
    Buy cheap, buy twice.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Other Forum gives me the Boot

      Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
      I can see your point....interesting how the internet is creating a shift in commerce, good for some things, bad for others.
      I cannot fight it if my ad budget grows and grows as homeowners and handymen reap havoc on our trade.

      One thing has popped into mind, knowingly offering free advice to someone who is doing something illegal...

      Lets say Harry homeowner burns his house down, kills his family with co poisoning, or has to have extensive work done from water damage.
      His lawyer tells him he was not advised that doing the work was illegal, or the professional that informed him on how to do the work should not have done so in the first place....I think that will be interesting.

      Sounds rediculous, until you think of the woman that sued McDonalds for spilling her own coffee on her own lap because McDonalds brewed it too hot.
      There is an HVAC post today, where detailed info was given about resizing oil burner orifices... gives me chills.
      spodelee

      Until lions have their own storytellers, stories of the hunt shall always glorify the hunter

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Other Forum gives me the Boot

        Originally posted by spodelee View Post
        there is an hvac post today, where detailed info was given about resizing oil burner orifices... Gives me chills.



        link please!
        Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Other Forum gives me the Boot

          DIY mentality has made its way into all segments of American life
          The DIY mentality is what has made this country,
          it was here from day one of first explorers, yes there were people with expertise, but they still had a large mastery of skills and most could do many things not jsut one, thing

          when people moved west, the "pioneers" were DIYers, they built there own housing out of the materials on hand (sod or logs, or what ever, used buffalo dung for fires, fixed there own wagons, did there own vet work, raised there own food and butchered there own meat, with very little out side help,

          one of the other things was team work, they all helped each other, in there process of settling the west,

          my Grand father, was a farmer, a rancher, a general store owner, a homesteader, a land broker, laid out a town (I guess you could call him surveyor), a banker, built buildings,
          and I do not know all the other things that he did. but he was a DIYer,

          my uncle was a farmer, telephone lineman, mechanic, welder, plaster, and ended up a top NASA rocket engineer, (and never had a degree), (top electrical engineer for the Saturn second stage rocket booster, and many other projects including parts of the space shuttle). He was a good DIYer as well.

          most any farmer is a DIYer some times out of need and some times out of desire,
          most are very good agronomist, mechanics, truckers, heavy machine operators, carpenters, welders, plumbers, electricians, (most around here keep there 460 three phase wells operating, at least the basics), and many also are not to bad at the markets and trading. two of our local farmers are lawyers as well.

          during the 1930 you either DIY or did with out.

          after WW2 the DIY movement was in high gear, with the service men and women getting back to civilian life, one of the very popular magazines of the era was "popular science, and popular mechanics" ever look through one of the 1950 era magazines, they were chocked full of DIY projects and how to.

          one of the popular DIY books of the post WW2 era, was, "your dream home,... for less than $3500" http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...han+%243500%22

          the DIYer has been around a long time, yes there has been a resurgent of it in the last 20 or so years, but it is by no way new,

          I do think what is new is the GOD syndrom in the licenced trades, I do not care what the trade is if there is a licence tax required by the Government to work in that line of work, then some how it is beyond any one else to able to do there own. It has only been a few years of many of the license have been required, (many less than 30 years, and some locations there still not required by many counties, and many of the requirements vary greatly by state to state).
          was only a few years ago, that AC was licenced, and you can get the basic EPA licence to use refrigerants and a short test, via the Internet,
          http://www.epatest.com/608/openbook/
          I am not denying that any one did not work and earn there licence, but everyone else who does much of any thing has done the same, they work hard and learn and if there good they excelled in there chosen business, but the truth of the mater is the licence is a piece of paper and a tax, and makes one league given locations,

          (I guess I am jsut amazed that so many of you sallow the TAXATION and the GOVERNMENT INTRUSION in to your lives and work, and even at that to take a job you have to pay another TAX called a permit, and even being licence, (Taxed and trained to do the job correctly, and Savior of public health, you need to pay another TAX, called an inspection to get your job approved).


          If one does not want to help some one, then don't, but to bash some one who want to learn and to gain some knowledge what is wrong with that, if that is the case, then those who are teaching here, should not teach to unlicensed persons, or at least have there apprentice cards, If you want a secrete trade then why even frequent sites that even allow DIYer post. Yes I hope some one who is Licenced has more skills and abilities and understands things better than some one who is not in the trade, but why is it a crime for them to do it them selves? There was a post not that long ago on working on your own cars, many here do varying degrees of there own service, WHY? either you like it want to learn more, or are saving some moneys.

          DIY is not wrong, it is an American heritage, it definitely is not NEW.
          Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
          attributed to Samuel Johnson
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Other Forum gives me the Boot

            I lurk on other sites, have yet to find anything there worth filling out the registration form for.

            Greg

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Other Forum gives me the Boot

              Originally posted by DUNBAR View Post
              link please!
              http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19311
              spodelee

              Until lions have their own storytellers, stories of the hunt shall always glorify the hunter

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Other Forum gives me the Boot

                Originally posted by spodelee View Post
                There is an HVAC post today, where detailed info was given about resizing oil burner orifices... gives me chills.
                Heck, we had a guy here a few months back asking about his boiler.
                He was doing some relatively mundane stuff, then out of the blue he decides to mess with the gas valve adjustments.

                We never heard from him again.

                Or another fella installing his own 120 amp electric tankless, picking and choosing the advice he liked best, insulting the guys who didn't tell him what he wanted to hear.

                He disappeared too.

                For giggles, either yesterday or the day before I noticed a DIY inquirer was a marketing professional, I offered to help out as long as he were willing to offer some free advice in our new business section.

                Yup, he disappeared.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Other Forum gives me the Boot

                  Originally posted by BHD View Post
                  ............
                  I am not denying that any one did not work and earn there licence, but everyone else who does much of any thing has done the same, they work hard and learn and if there good they excelled in there chosen business, but the truth of the mater is the licence is a piece of paper and a tax, and makes one league given locations, ........
                  I absolutely 100% disagree with that statement.
                  I understand the farming mentality, you don't have a lot of money and no time to wait for a pro to get back to you, but that statement right there completely sums the attitude towards plumbing, gas & electrical that kills people every year.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Other Forum gives me the Boot

                    Originally posted by spodelee View Post
                    There is an HVAC post today, where detailed info was given about resizing oil burner orifices... gives me chills.

                    when companys put out liturature like this why are you bothered,

                    http://www.delavaninc.com/pdf/total_look.pdf

                    Any basic heating book will tell the same,
                    Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
                    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                    "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
                    attributed to Samuel Johnson
                    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                    PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Other Forum gives me the Boot

                      Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                      I noticed a DIY inquirer was a marketing professional, I offered to help out as long as he were willing to offer some free advice in our new business section.

                      Yup, he disappeared.
                      Smart man. I am not a charity consultant, I had one customer this week who openly complained about the price to me while I worked! (even though he had called three other plumbers before me, and I had given him a free phone estimate.)
                      He tried to pick my brain for ideas and watched me every second like a hawk...I finally had to tell him to let me do my job because I had other appointments. He figured since I was 'expensive' in his mind, he would get his money's worth by asking me 500 questions and dragging out the job. I finally had to tell him to let me finish my job, finished and got paid.
                      I won't be working for him again, that is for sure.
                      Insult me by telling me I overcharge and then treat me like a free DIYer encyclopedia! No thanks, luckily 90% of the customers who call are much cooler than that.
                      Water Heater Reviews & Water Heater Information

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Other Forum gives me the Boot

                        Originally posted by BHD View Post
                        (I guess I am jsut amazed that so many of you sallow the TAXATION and the GOVERNMENT INTRUSION in to your lives and work, and even at that to take a job you have to pay another TAX called a permit, and even being licence, (Taxed and trained to do the job correctly, and Savior of public health, you need to pay another TAX, called an inspection to get your job approved).

                        True, licensing is taxation and government intrusion. In fact, by licensing you make yourself a target. After all, now the government knows a whole lot more about you than they did before you got that license. It's a whole lot easier to pick on the licensed guy than the guy hidden in the shadows.

                        Nonetheless, an attempt must be made to protect the public through licensing, as well as an industry that has a vested financial interest. Otherwise, cats would live with dogs, Brittney Spears would be president, Duckbutter would be a flaming liberal , and anarchy would prevail, etc...
                        spodelee

                        Until lions have their own storytellers, stories of the hunt shall always glorify the hunter

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Other Forum gives me the Boot

                          Originally posted by spodelee View Post
                          There is an HVAC post today, where detailed info was given about resizing oil burner orifices... gives me chills.
                          You'll notice I posted some very helpful advice myself...couldn't resist.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Other Forum gives me the Boot

                            Originally posted by spodelee View Post
                            The internet & DIY mentality has made its way into all segments of American life - Accountants lose business to Turbotax - attorney's lose business to paralegals and self help web sites - bookkeepers lose jobs to accounting programs - mom & pop stores lose business to on-line stores and Wal Mart - Furgeson lost my purchase of two K-60's & two K39s to Toolup.com, etc... The DIY / internet movement is larger than any of us and IMHO, there is no point in fighting it.

                            I wise man once reminded me that it is important not to waste energy on battles that can't be won, but rather spend your energy on those battles that can be won, i. e. the other 60-80% of current and potential customers that do not DIY. If we treat those people right, there is plenty of pie for everybody.

                            I think the key to preserving the trades is education. Not just education about our craft, but also education about how to run a business and how to effectively treat people. Most of us were put on this world to build and fix things, so hitting the books wasn't real high on our priority list way back when. Consequently, the industry as a whole doesn't know how to make itself indispensable to the customer, which makes many of us an easy target for the do it yourselfer.

                            In any case, I strongly believe that a trades person can protect him/herself from the DIY/internet movement by spoiling the customer with customer service that is not easily ignored. After all, people are lazy by nature and most of them, if given the opportunity, will take the path of least resistance... the plumber with exceptional customer service.
                            This post shows a deep understanding of the plumbing business. I am going to save this one to my computer!
                            Water Heater Reviews & Water Heater Information

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Other Forum gives me the Boot

                              Originally posted by BHD View Post
                              when companys put out liturature like this why are you bothered,

                              http://www.delavaninc.com/pdf/total_look.pdf

                              Any basic heating book will tell the same,
                              Well, this is going to come off as emotional hogwash, but google "boiler explosion" and see what you get.

                              Call me paranoid, but until I know a persons real qualifications, detailed advise on how to modify a boiler, or any other gas or electrical device for that matter, will not be given via an internet forum.
                              spodelee

                              Until lions have their own storytellers, stories of the hunt shall always glorify the hunter

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Other Forum gives me the Boot

                                This thread has raised some interesting points. I feel somewhat ambivalent about the diy homeowner thing. On the one hand I agree with the frontier ethic of do or do without. I think that attitude is somewhat lacking in our country with a specialized economy. Everybody knows allot about one thing and not much about everything else. The problem is that we don't all live on the frontier any more. Mistakes with plumbing and electrical work might make your house an insanitary slop hole (we have all seen it) or a fire trap, and I believe in every mans right to live in whatever conditions he chooses. The problem is that we don't all live on our own isolated islands. In a city what you do in your house effects me. What I do effects you. Thus building codes, zoning laws, permits and licensed professionals doing the work. This morning I couldn't get my work truck down the street as it was blocked off by several fire engines and gas company trucks. A homeowner was installing an irrigation system and didn't realize there was a gas pipe down there! I wonder if he is planing on installing a double check?
                                I'm feeling less ambivalent now.

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