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Navien tankless heaters

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  • Navien tankless heaters

    Our supplier (Etna) here is starting to carry these heaters, along with the 'heater box' which has me interested too. These are 98% efficient, vent with PVC, includes a 1/2 gallon tank and recirc pump IN THE cabinet and will allow lower flows as a result, and allow a recirc line in the house without (supposedly) another surge tank.
    Supposedly cost is not excessive either, although I doubt that claim.

    I'm wondering if anyone has installed or worked on one of these yet? If so what sort of issues have there been?
    sigpic3:00, I mean 5:00, and work is done. Time to crack a cold one.

  • #2
    Re: Navien tankless heaters

    I have not come across a Navien yet. Their technology intrigues me, but being a beta tester does not. Please let us know what you think when and if you take the plunge.


    • #3
      Re: Navien tankless heaters

      Almost sounds like a Takagi TH1.

      Whenever I looked at pricing for these guys though, they wanted a good $1000 more (basically double) the Rinnai models I was looking at. A grand will get me a lot of natural gas and by the time I start getting payback on it, it will probably be due to be replaced anyway. As it is, payback on the Rinnai will take me good while. The 95% effeciency over the Rinnai's 82 sure sounds interesting though, but I could not justify the price.

      If these Navien's are priced around the Rinnai price range ... Rinnai has their work cut out for them ...
      Last edited by theoak; 08-19-2008, 10:29 AM.


      • #4
        Re: Navien tankless heaters

        I had a Navien tankless CR-240A and the Heating Box closed circuit installed in June. This was on the advice of a plumbing contractor who is a relative, and he also did the work. This was the second Navien he had installed. It supplies us with domestic hot water and heats the recently finished basement of our 1000 sq' bungalow thru radiant floor heat.

        To date (and for the record, i live in Edmonton, AB, so it is cool up here and we have been using the system for underfloor heating since last month) the system has work OK for us. We had one breakdown - the flow sensor in the CR-240A seemed to have corroded on a metal part to a point where the little turbine could no longer spin. Water flow was measured at zero and so the heater did not turn on. Parts, we found, were hard to come by and our installer lives 2 hours away. The Navien tech person in California walked me thru a repair attempt and then a flow sensor replacement. The plumbing supply shop carrying Navien thought they did not have any parts for this unit, but again the Navien tech got on the phone with them and together they found the part.

        I was a little surprised that this type of corrosion would happen after only 3 months of heating domestic hot water for us, but i am trying to remain positive and give the product the benefit of the doubt.

        The Navien tech was very helpful and apologetic; however i don't think i should have to be dealing with him so early in the life of this heater.

        Aside from this, the unit, specifically the Heating Box, is quite loud. While the doors are not yet installed in the room in the basement that this is located in, i can hear the Heating Box from anywhere in the house when all else is quiet. I am going to try putting rubber behind the mounts to see if that will help with vibration. There are Armstrong pumps used in the HEating Box and i wonder if Grundfos would be better? I was also thinking of wrapping it in insulation to see if that helped, but i wonder if that would impede heat disipation. The water heater itself is not as loud but vibrations from it can be heard upstairs and there is no way i can fit any cushioning between it and the 2 x 4 wall with 3/4" plywood it is attached to. I can live with the water heater sound however. The Heating Box - it seems excessive.

        Lastly, the cost. The units seem pricey and i am not sure that we will ever save the money thru pure natural gas cost savings alone. We haven't gone a whole year with it yet, so it is still too early to say if we are happy with it. Currently however, getting the noise level down would go a long way in allowing us to breathe easier about our expenditure.



        • #5
          Re: Navien tankless heaters

          I have to install my first one on Thursday. Let you know how it goes and what I think about the unit.


          • #6
            Re: Navien tankless heaters

            Thanks, i look forward to your thoughts. And sorry for posting in the wrong forum - i am not a pro!


            • #7
              Re: Navien tankless heaters

              Installed my first Navien tankless water heater yesterday. It is not much different than other models I have installed. I don't like having to run two pipes out through the roof. (Installed in attic space). Could not adjust temperature on t-stat, any help there would me great. What I did like was being able to use PVC for vent material. I still prefer Rheem and Rinnai over Navien. Need to learn more about Navien. More familiar with Rheem and Rinnai.


              • #8
                Re: Navien tankless heaters

                well let me share my navien experience.
                first off ive installed roughly 50+ demand water heaters.
                7of them being navien heaters , the 240 A nat gas ones.
                out of all of them, three have malfunctioned on me.
                the first one was easy, it was the flow sensor, now they have improved them , now there stainless steel.
                by simply taking the two clamps off the sensor and pulling it off and blowing on it gets it running again.
                next issue was my unit would come on , go off , come on ,go off ect. . i then phoned the navien experts , they told me my board was screwed. so i got one off the wholesaler and problem fixed.
                third unit same thing pretty much but they tell me this time my computer board is outdated. so they rob one off another unit and dammm !! some of the terminals clips dont match up.
                so now im waiting for help.
                worst senario i have another unit installed thats not used yet i am going to change the whole unit out.
                so all in all ive spent myself aprox 8 hours fixing this things with no pay.
                So you decide , i can pretty much tell you anything about these units now as im getting very sick of them .
                thanks have fun
                Last edited by rick's plumbing; 10-27-2008, 06:57 PM.


                • #9
                  Re: Navien tankless heaters

                  Thanks rick's plumbing. Sorry to hear about these problems - i hope we didn't make a mistake in installing one.
                  Regarding the 240a, when it is working hard (in conjunction with radiant floor) and aspirating hard, it creates what sounds like a 'moo'ing sound when it draws in lots of air. When standing next to the unit, it doesn't sound that loud, but the sound seems to resonate throughout the house. From upstairs, it sounds like we have a cow living in the basement. I have checked the air intake, the filter - all seem clear. This vibrating resonance seems to come from the tube where the air is taken into the fan - the black housing. The 3 screws holding this unit are secure. I am considering cutting this off intake channel, but i am afraid of creating a bigger problem.
                  Any thoughts?


                  • #10
                    Re: Navien tankless heaters

                    I have had 4 units with the computer board issue, I am starting to wonder if there is a problem here. Haqs anyone else had this issue, if so what are your serial numbers of the units? I think I am seeing a trend. Please let me know.


                    • #11
                      Re: Navien tankless heaters

                      No pc board issue but gas for me. I had a hell of a time getting gas pressure adjusted to were the unit woul'nt blow out. We had to adjust the regulator just to get unit to operate right. Hope I never see another Navien again.


                      • #12
                        Re: Navien tankless heaters

                        I have heard from wholesalers that Navien is coming around to homeowners and wholesalers and replacing the rubber hose from the gas valve due to gas leaks, and a fire. Anyone else hearing the same?


                        • #13
                          Re: Navien tankless heaters

                          I haven't put any of these in yet. Sounds like there is some issues. With regards to the programming changes, will this create any approval issues, for exampleany fellow Canadians in Ontario, is TSSA 'OK' with the changes?
                          For everyone else, do these changes need CSA approval with regards to gasket changes and programming revisions?


                          • #14
                            Re: Navien tankless heaters

                            They do need approval, and so far Navien has not reported any of these issues. Navien is going out on their own to replace these issues, therefore making what they are doing could shut them down (out of buisness) It will be an interesting 2009


                            • #15
                              Help with Navien!


                              I had a Navien CR-240A model installed about 3 months ago and it worked well, until about 1 month ago when the unit shutdown with an Error 10 (Abnormal Air Pressure).

                              When it shutdown, it was cold out probably below -30 without the wind.

                              I managed it get it to startup, but then it quit again a few hours later with an Error 12 (Flame Loss). I could not get it to fire, with it reporting error 3 (Iginator failed) after every reboot.

                              I left the next day on vacation so our installer came over a few days later and he said the unit fired right up, he didn't do anything he said.

                              Ever since then though, the unit has been performing not as well and now it has quit again all together. The last few weeks the unit turns on/off around 3 times when water is called, thus increases the amount of time it takes to get hot water to the tap. After the 3rd time of it turning off, it did seem to run after that. Also, during the start up and shutdown, the unit seems a lot louder, making loud humming noises, before it shuts off, then starts back up.

                              Also, since the unit shutdown a month ago, it can no longer heat the water in our bathtub. The unit doesn't shutdown or produce errors, it just is not able to heat the water when I turn the water on in the bathtub

                              The unit supplies hot water to the house as well as my radiant floor heat in my basement. We have the external circ line attached so we have the unit set to external circulation. As a test a couple days ago, I set it back to internal circulation (turned the 3 way valve and turned dip switch 5 off and 4 on), and it error 10 as soon as I plugged it in.

                              I switched it back to external circ setup, and it now too gives error 10 at startup and will not work at all.

                              I have called Navien, but they haven't called me back yet.

                              Does anyone have any suggestions for me?

                              I noticed the air intake on my fan (internal one) is pointed towards the floor, and not the air intake hole at the top of the unit. Is that normal? Are yours like this?

                              Thanks for any help anyone might be able to provide