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  • Re: Navien tankless heaters

    To whomever represents and likes Navien:

    I have zero experience with your product.

    Others that do have experience with Navien, Rinnai, Takagi, & Noritz have found the Navien to be more troublesome than the other three brands.

    It IS as simple as that. You can tell your success stories, they tell you the horror stories.

    You should not assume all is installation error by some "uneducated plumber". Remember, they are having success with 3 DIFFERENT competitive products that also require proper installation.

    Based on that, any reasonable person should assume that the Navien is more problematic and if it's part of their product line then they should look constantly for ways to improve it.

    J.C.

    Comment


    • Re: Navien tankless heaters


      I was really seduced by the high efficiency ratings of the Navien water heater and thanks to forums like these, I will not consider buying this brand. I will install a Nortiz. I do wish Noritz had smaller condensing units.

      I emailed Navien support a few months back and spoke to some of the issues posted here and on other groups. I was told that 95% of their issues were installation related. From some of the issues posted here, I doubted that canned response they gave me. I suggested that they present themselves here and speak to some of the issues you all have had. I never got a reply back. Had they replied and posted in this forum under their banner, I would have drastically changed my opinion about them. Now I am more suspicious that they have something to hide.

      Thanks everyone for helping me choose a reliable product and potentially saving my marriage.

      Comment


      • Re: Navien tankless heaters

        Originally posted by Mr_Dishman View Post
        I was really seduced by the high efficiency ratings of the Navien water heater and thanks to forums like these, I will not consider buying this brand. I will install a Nortiz. I do wish Noritz had smaller condensing units.

        I emailed Navien support a few months back and spoke to some of the issues posted here and on other groups. I was told that 95% of their issues were installation related. From some of the issues posted here, I doubted that canned response they gave me. I suggested that they present themselves here and speak to some of the issues you all have had. I never got a reply back. Had they replied and posted in this forum under their banner, I would have drastically changed my opinion about them. Now I am more suspicious that they have something to hide.

        Thanks everyone for helping me choose a reliable product and potentially saving my marriage.
        If you want a smaller unit that will do the job for you Rinnai is a very good alternative. The vent piping is PVC sleeved over aluminum, so it is not nearly as expensive as a stainless steal vent system. Also I do prefer direct vent systems. If I sell a Noritz is always the DV model, and Rinnai does a what we call concentric vent which is like a DV model just the intake pipe and exhaust pipe are all in one. If you really like the Noritz they have a concentric vent unit a 751-DVC is the model number the new model number is the NR98-DVC
        Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
        A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
        Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
        Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

        Comment


        • Re: Navien tankless heaters

          Originally posted by SewerRatz View Post
          If you want a smaller unit that will do the job for you Rinnai is a very good alternative. The vent piping is PVC sleeved over aluminum, so it is not nearly as expensive as a stainless steal vent system. Also I do prefer direct vent systems. If I sell a Noritz is always the DV model, and Rinnai does a what we call concentric vent which is like a DV model just the intake pipe and exhaust pipe are all in one. If you really like the Noritz they have a concentric vent unit a 751-DVC is the model number the new model number is the NR98-DVC
          Can I hire you as a sub, to install these for me. LOL

          Comment


          • Re: Navien tankless heaters

            Originally posted by SewerRatz View Post
            If you want a smaller unit that will do the job for you Rinnai is a very good alternative. The vent piping is PVC sleeved over aluminum, so it is not nearly as expensive as a stainless steal vent system. Also I do prefer direct vent systems. If I sell a Noritz is always the DV model, and Rinnai does a what we call concentric vent which is like a DV model just the intake pipe and exhaust pipe are all in one. If you really like the Noritz they have a concentric vent unit a 751-DVC is the model number the new model number is the NR98-DVC
            Until you buy the snorkel kit, just under $300 for an additional 90, an extendable sleeve and a straight piece, in that case your better off buying a unit that requires SS and piping a separate PVC inlet.

            Comment


            • Re: Navien tankless heaters

              Thanks guys, but I already bought the Noritz NRC111-DV-NG (842) model and it was shipped today. I will make it work hard for me. I have a solar thermal array so this would be my backup heater. When its not heating DHW, I plan to use it to heat my future Hot tub and maybe some light radiant heat to a small room that is being heated electrically.

              Comment


              • Re: Navien tankless heaters

                Originally posted by Mr_Dishman View Post
                Thanks guys, but I already bought the Noritz NRC111-DV-NG (842) model and it was shipped today. I will make it work hard for me. I have a solar thermal array so this would be my backup heater. When its not heating DHW, I plan to use it to heat my future Hot tub and maybe some light radiant heat to a small room that is being heated electrically.
                How do you intend on isolating the DHW from the radiant, with a heat exchanger? Are you considering using the unit with a crossconnection? Now that will start a whole other discussion.
                Btw Tankless make lousy inefficient boilers

                Comment


                • Re: Navien tankless heaters

                  I will be using heat exchangers to isolate my applications from my DHW.

                  I have a bank of storage tanks that I use for my solar storage and plan to only use my tankless to heat the top portion of one of them for hot water.

                  I know I would loose efficiencies using this to heat a portion of a highly insulated tank, but I want no temp swings and would like heat when I have a trickle coming out of my tap. Couple with concerns of my front loader washing machine
                  making multiple calls for water in small increments, I felt that this would be the best configuration for my situation.

                  Given that I have a large solar evacuated tube array and the coldwater supply is preheated from a Drainwater heat exchanger I built. My tankless heater will have not a lot of work to do to supply my hot water needs.

                  For heating that future hot tub and a small room located above my garage,
                  I imagined diverting to another solar storage tank to supply those demands for heat
                  via external heat exchangers. I was thinking that this would be the best setup
                  of a condensing unit for my application. I did consider a boiler but was not content with Noritz's 82% rating on their unit.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Navien tankless heaters

                    Originally posted by OkieBill View Post
                    ( I don't know any plumbers that will still install a Navien but your welcome all the same)

                    I find it fascinating that all of the sales guys are the ones telling the installers they are wrong or how much they love their "Naiven" Tankless heater.

                    To all of you sales guys
                    Until you install and service the equipment you are professing as great your opinion is biased in favor of your wallets and almighty profit margin.

                    I do not care what brand of gas tankless a customer installs as long as it is not a Navien tankless heater due to the issues mentioned in this thread can you as a "sales guy" give the same advice??? I doubt it...

                    -- Remember the lines you are taught to use on your retail customers don't work on Pro's So if you would like to discuss any of the sales points you use by all means step up to bat.

                    This discussion is indexed pretty highly on google so lots of potential Navien customers are reading these threads now is your chance to set the pros straight

                    Total: Did you really take your ball and go home? That is a shame because between all the sarcasm we have around here we manage to have some great discussions so if you decide to put on your big girl panties and come back I would enjoy your continued input in this thread.

                    Bill

                    I'm in the process of getting some quotes for a tankless system to replace a couple of 40 gal tanks in my basement here in Colorado Springs. My main reason is to free up some space, and the energy savings is a plus. The first contractor came through and recommend the Navien system. I'm glad I stumbled on this forum. I wanted the Noritz, but was told it was harder to install. I don't think he knows that the 841 system uses PVC piping. I guess I'll have to get more quotes, or talk to some others who knows the product line a bit more.

                    I do have a general question: I would ideally like to have the tankless unit mounted outside the house to simplify the install and to save more space. It would literally go just outside my basement wall where I would install it anyways. Should save me some install cost as well. What are the downsides of an outside install? The temp here can get very cold, but rarely worse than -10F.

                    Thanks in advance.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Navien tankless heaters

                      Installing it outside in that frigid of temps will kill the efficiency as it will be running in freeze protection forever. Lose power or gas and the unit will turn into an icecube within an hour destroying the unit. The other problem is keeping the outside waterlines from freezing. Units shouldn't be outside unless you live in Miami.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Navien tankless heaters

                        Thanks Lee. That's good info.

                        As for one of Kitokatlin's points, regarding altitude in CO. I called and spoke with a Noritz rep, there's just a dip switch that you need to change on the Noritz for altitudes >6500.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Navien tankless heaters

                          Installed Navien Cr-240-A use 140degree water for reheat purposes
                          using internal pump for recir after 3 month pump failed, could have air locked no water, using city water pressure 50 lbs, system is on second floor.
                          Pump was over nighted no charge from Navian, city water pressure failed twice durning this time, system works hard feeds two large coils on 15 ton A/C blower units. cuts nat gas bill by 25% from using 72% old system. using CVPC as supply lines it get vey hot

                          working on second unit to replace electric heat strips
                          I HAVE FACTORY SERVICE MANNUAL

                          Comment


                          • Re: Navien tankless heaters

                            Originally posted by rme View Post
                            Thanks Total for the docs, and others for your contributions. I have found the Navien tech support continues to be responsive and available. But I am learning more from this forum than any other source!

                            I had forgot to reprogram the circulation pump after replacing circuit board. Now hot water is coming on quick after reprograming. My mistake on that one. With the new board, the hot water is staying at constant temperature well. With the old board it waivered around for 10-20 seconds whe first coming on.

                            Navien sent out a new flow sensor. Have yet to get it installed as unit has been working reliably lately. Judging from the posts on this thread made about flow sensors not working and particles in the water jamming the sensor, I am encouraged to think that is what has caused my unit to not come on once in awhile. My hunch is that the sensor might have received sediements when I raised the water pressure a while back after wife complaints about low pressure in shower while toilet filling. I will also put in the 5micron filter on the water inlet that was recommended on this thread when I mess with the sensor.
                            Just an update on my Navien installation. Everything is working fine. Water is hot quickly and stays constant in temp. I have not taken the time to replace any flow sensors, nor install pre-filter. Since unit has been functioning flawlessly, I see no reason to mess around. I kind of have a hunch my problems might have stemmed from my whole house water pressure adjustment increase. Possibly this dislodged a chunk of 60 year old galvanized piping sediment which as far as I know might be interferred with flow sensor operation. Anything new I will report back. For now I am totally pleased.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Navien tankless heaters

                              Sewerratz,

                              Like what I hear about your experience with all of the major tankless units. I to service and install many different tankless units and am new to the forum. Forgive me all for not finding you sooner. The point I want to make is that in the beginning, it seemed that everyone wanted to make one tankless the solution for all installations. That is not the case and you must fit the brand, model and size to the application. As well as the install location.

                              I respect what you say and look forward to being a more active member in this forum.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Navien tankless heaters

                                Hi all, I'm new to this forum but not very new to Navien Tankless heaters. I have a CR 210a and have had it running for about 2 years now. Flawlessly I might add. It's used only for hot water at 4 sinks and two showers, dishwasher and washing machine. I usually don't bother with the recirculation pump and just put up with the cold water sandwhich if I need to. I have used the pump though and it works when used.

                                My problem which has just started is only when I am trying to fill my bathtub which is a tub/shower combo, pretty normal basic unit. It keeps alternating from hot to cold to hot....etc etc...more cold then hot really. As if it can't keep up with the water.

                                If I pull the plunger (thingy on the tub faucet, spout....) to start the shower the problem goes away and it works perfectly. Lots of hot water forever it seems.

                                The wife tells me that the washing machine is also doing the same thing (haven't verified yet) but I think I might believe her...hehe.

                                Tech support is point at my 'mixing valve' at the shower which I'm guessing is my tap. It's one of those single controls that shuts off at one end of COLD and the other end is full HOT.

                                Any other suggestions or does this sound right? I can't see how it would work when the shower is running but not when filling the tub.

                                Any help is appreciated

                                Thanks in advance

                                Cheers

                                Kavan

                                Comment

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