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  • Re: Navien tankless heaters

    I like the buyer requirements, that way every distributor on every corner doesnt stock the product, shrinking the margin.

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    • Re: Navien tankless heaters

      Hello All,
      I have been introduced to the Navien units and reaaly need to post the experience. We put one in about 6 months ago and knock on wood it is running just fine. The only catch to that one was the hanging bracket was missing from the box. No huge deal...we made a quick bracket, hung it, hooked it up, and it took right off. I thought we had another Rinaii...meaning a great product.

      Then came the second one...just installed 2 weeks ago. This one is a CR210 and actually came with all the parts. The hang and set of the unit was normal. There is a 130k BTU boiler sitting beside the Navien, no other services points for the gas. We are 40' from the meter with 1 1/4 black iron running for 35' of that. Fired the unit and it vibrates, rumbles, and flashes out when flow rates exceed 3gpm.

      Calling tech support, they said to adjust the gas and air mixture, but it was to involved to do over the phone. I would need to get it off their website. Well the 113 page service manual they do not provide is also not on thei website. I did get it from a rep. and had it copied into a book $145 later. Followed the adjustment procedures and the unit dialed right in for 3rd stage low but will not adjust at all during high 3rd stage flow.

      Back to tech support I had 3 of their staff tell me it was not the unit but the gas pipe size. This conversation ended with them giving no advice and hanging up on me when I told them if I don't get a board replacement then I will pull the unit off the wall and put in a Rinaii. I guess that was lilke cussing them out or something. I called back to speak with the C.E.O. being highly irrate at this point. I got yet another tech support that is overnighting the new board but he stated the board we have is not high altitude rated. This is news to me with their product, nowhere have I seen control board change outs based on altitude. We are at 5800' on this location.

      So the question is:Are they just making more crap up or do the new boards seperate altitudes and if so at what elevation?

      WILL NEVER INSTALL ANOTHER NAVIEN UNTIL THEY CAN PROVE THEMSELVES>>>GIVE IT ATLEAST 5 YEARS
      Kevin

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      • Re: Navien tankless heaters

        Just installed a navien CR240 and so far so good (only day 3). I too wish I could have read and investigated more some of these posts before the purchase. To be honest, two things hooked me, (1) 98% efficiency and (2) the ability to use schedule 40 3" PVC for venting.

        One thing I'd like to solicit some advice on is whether or not I have to glue the vent pipe. I have the materials to do so and it certainly would seem logical to do so, but I sort of want to wait for a few months to see how it does before making it all "permanent". The PVC fittings are pushed together pretty snug. And I'm planning on inspecting them once a week or so.

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        • Re: Navien tankless heaters

          Originally posted by tanklessjob View Post
          Just installed a navien CR240 and so far so good (only day 3). I too wish I could have read and investigated more some of these posts before the purchase. To be honest, two things hooked me, (1) 98% efficiency and (2) the ability to use schedule 40 3" PVC for venting.

          One thing I'd like to solicit some advice on is whether or not I have to glue the vent pipe. I have the materials to do so and it certainly would seem logical to do so, but I sort of want to wait for a few months to see how it does before making it all "permanent". The PVC fittings are pushed together pretty snug. And I'm planning on inspecting them once a week or so.
          YES!!! Glue the joints. Being a condensating unit, there will be large enough amounts water/condensate in the vent that an unglued joint will leak water on to the unit and possibly damage the unit.

          Comment


          • Re: Navien tankless heaters

            Originally posted by tanklessjob View Post
            Just installed a navien CR240 and so far so good (only day 3). I too wish I could have read and investigated more some of these posts before the purchase. To be honest, two things hooked me, (1) 98% efficiency and (2) the ability to use schedule 40 3" PVC for venting.

            One thing I'd like to solicit some advice on is whether or not I have to glue the vent pipe. I have the materials to do so and it certainly would seem logical to do so, but I sort of want to wait for a few months to see how it does before making it all "permanent". The PVC fittings are pushed together pretty snug. And I'm planning on inspecting them once a week or so.
            Glue the joints! What are you crazy?
            DIRTFT

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            • Re: Navien tankless heaters

              I have installed Navien, Rinnai, & Noritz(just my first). I too am disapointed with all the issues I had with Navien(about 35 of them originally). I have now gone thru them all with the help of the navien reps and they all are working fine. I installed 10 of the new generation ones with no problems yet(1 year).
              As for the heat box noise. They have now changed out the noisey armstrong circ for a quieter replacement. Huge difference. These units are awesome for small combi systems.
              Rinnai issues have all been due to lack of maintenance and the odd exchanger issue.
              Iv'e only isntalled the 1 noritz(condencing) and it was $$$$$$$ expensive up front but seems to work great outside of the very noisey start up and shut down due to modulation.
              All in all I think that when it comes to the tankless industry we need to do alot of due dilligence before installing them.
              Just my 2 cents.

              Comment


              • Re: Navien tankless heaters

                Hi,

                We've had a Navien 240A since April 2010. No issues with the heater.

                The company that installed it has a lot of experience with installing these machines.

                The only thing that is annoying is when running a tap at a trickle to rinse the soap off dishes. The flow rate isn't enough to activate the heater so eventually the water runs cold. I've had to adapt the way I rinse my plates.

                I haven't experienced outages, cold sandwiches, or lack of flow. I'm pleased with it.

                s.

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                • Re: Navien tankless heaters

                  Originally posted by Kupe View Post
                  We're on a crawlspace so we didn't have the option of positioning the unit far from any living spaces- the only thing separating us from the unit are the floorboards. So we expected to hear something, but I'm curious about the startup and shutdown fan noise. Is this normal?

                  And speaking of recirculation, how often is "normal" for the recirculation pump to cycle on and off? During periods of zero demand, I'd say ours comes on and off once every 4 or 5 minutes. Does that sound about right?

                  Thanks gang!

                  Kupe
                  Sorry for the resurrect, but Google brought me here on this topic. I'm a 'week-old' Navien NR-210A home owner. I also notice that during recirculation cycles, the unit starts up for about 10s and shuts down. Does this also every 4-5min. I've got a question into Navien about this. So, my guess is that if others experience this cycle, then it might be normal on recirculation mode.

                  I've also read here about the issues that the CR-xxx's have been having and I do believe that they have been corrected on the NR-xxx's. At least, that's the research that I found in doing a month long search for my replacement tank.

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                  • Re: Navien tankless heaters

                    The cr240A and is now a nr240A. It has a new look , some slight improved features. The only problem i ve had is people realized that the flow rate is a little crappy especially if two or more fixtures are on. After doing a bunch and learning the hard way, i ve started a new way of selling these. You need to educate your customer that this tankless is good for 2 reasons only. 1. you get endless hot water 2. save some floor space. otherwise you gotta tell them about the flow rate issues. Always get it with the recirc pump and program it properly for them to determine when the pump fires on and off. The programing is slightly comfusing at first. Realistically, i would just push a big *** gas water heater or twin two of them if space allows. You ll get the least headaches with tanks with indirect storage being next best. But i do love the profit you make installing a nr240a.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Navien tankless heaters

                      Originally posted by robertochekwong View Post
                      The cr240A and is now a nr240A. It has a new look , some slight improved features. The only problem i ve had is people realized that the flow rate is a little crappy especially if two or more fixtures are on. After doing a bunch and learning the hard way, i ve started a new way of selling these. You need to educate your customer that this tankless is good for 2 reasons only. 1. you get endless hot water 2. save some floor space. otherwise you gotta tell them about the flow rate issues. Always get it with the recirc pump and program it properly for them to determine when the pump fires on and off. The programing is slightly comfusing at first. Realistically, i would just push a big *** gas water heater or twin two of them if space allows. You ll get the least headaches with tanks with indirect storage being next best. But i do love the profit you make installing a nr240a.


                      I still will not sell Navien. I am still getting calls even on the new models where people are having issues on properly installed units. As for flow rate issues, you have to sell them multiple units to give them the ability to run more than 3 fixtures. That is the first thing I do is educate the consumer that we need to properly size a tankless system for their home. Some homes I have installed units in are able to use only one heater as long as they do not try to run the laundry , shave, shower and wash dishes all using pure hot water.

                      I still hear the people all for these tankless heaters stating they been in use in other countries for many years. What they fail to tell us is the reason they use them. Space is a premium in these other countries so they do not have to room for a tank type heater. Also they fail to tell you lots of the living areas have more than one tankless heater. They do not try to supply all their hot water needs through a single unit. They have one in the kitchen, they have one attached to the shower. They brought these things to the states saying oh you will save so much money not keeping a tank of water hot. The early models where so buggy, (some still are), and the initial cost of these units is so high its just not worth the cost of these heaters. These heaters have to be maintained (delimed Yearly) or you will void the warranty on the heater.

                      Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
                      Ron's Facebook
                      A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
                      Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
                      Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

                      Comment


                      • Re: Navien tankless heaters

                        The company that I work for has just recently switched to Navien. They used to install Rinnai, but ran into major issues. Because Alberta is wicked cold in the winter time, the Rinnai's would freeze up solid because of the condensation from the intake/venting. because of the set up a cold wind would blow the moist exhaust back into the intake and freeze the machine. So a number of the copper lines in the machine would freeze and burst. Rannai is a Japanese company, their winters do not reach much below
                        -10 C. Also their tankless units are mounted on the outside of their houses. So use in a really cold climate is not that great. Also a big problem was that Rinnai would not warantee their parts. So in order to fix a problem, they would have to buy another whole machine. Navien on the other hand, because of the separate venting and intake should, if installed properly, should eliminate the freezing problem in really cold winters. Also Navien DOES warantee their parts, so if a problem arises, it should be relatively easy and cost effective to fix.

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                        • Re: Navien tankless heaters

                          Originally posted by Mrjosiah111 View Post
                          The company that I work for has just recently switched to Navien. They used to install Rinnai, but ran into major issues. Because Alberta is wicked cold in the winter time, the Rinnai's would freeze up solid because of the condensation from the intake/venting. because of the set up a cold wind would blow the moist exhaust back into the intake and freeze the machine. So a number of the copper lines in the machine would freeze and burst. Rannai is a Japanese company, their winters do not reach much below
                          -10 C. Also their tankless units are mounted on the outside of their houses. So use in a really cold climate is not that great. Also a big problem was that Rinnai would not warantee their parts. So in order to fix a problem, they would have to buy another whole machine. Navien on the other hand, because of the separate venting and intake should, if installed properly, should eliminate the freezing problem in really cold winters. Also Navien DOES warantee their parts, so if a problem arises, it should be relatively easy and cost effective to fix.

                          Where to start...

                          Rinnai has in the 2 times in 4 years installing them been great about getting me warranty parts... If you tell your customers that they will have to buy a new heater rather then even buying the replacement part I'm gonna go ahead and raise the Hack Crook flag.

                          Your lack of attention to detail may have something to do with your equipment issues as well.

                          After reading this response I may indeed be coming off as a bit harsh but this post appears to be a poorly conceived bashing attempt, nothing more...

                          Comment


                          • Re: Navien tankless heaters

                            I agree with OkieBill, that Mrjosiah111 post seems more like a poorly conceived bashing attempt.

                            I have installed a few Rinnai heaters here in the Chicagoland area where our temps do go well below -10ยบ C and never seem a unit freeze up. Granted I followed their directions down to the tee for cold weather installs.
                            Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
                            Ron's Facebook
                            A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
                            Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
                            Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

                            Comment


                            • Re: Navien tankless heaters

                              i'm currently looking for some insight on the navien 240a model. i had one (installed by a diffrent contractor) fail due to what i think is freezing. the line from the bottom of the buffer tank was completely disconnected and i could feel cold air coming down from the air intake connection. although this cold air coming down is obviously normal, what could be done to fix this problem and does anyone think navien will warranty the buffer tank and any associated piping which may be damaged?

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                              • Re: Navien tankless heaters

                                I have had the Navien 240A for 2 years in my home and have never been so disappointed. The thing is an utter piece of crap. Navien has sent me motherboards, valves and a complete refurb. kit (had to intall myself).
                                I still had a very long wait for hot water, so I installed the recirc. line.
                                This did absolutely no good, warm water at best. Service promises a return call by the Supervisor, but they never call back. I am now at the stage where I will sue in court and go to a tank.
                                BUYER BEWARE.

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