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  • Re: Navien tankless heaters

    Two days ago I was leaving a local plumbing supply house and a guy gets out of his minivan and asks me if I'm a plumber. I lied and said yes.

    He asks me if I want a slightly used tankless water heater. I must have looked at him strangely because he told me it wasn't stolen. His story, documented by his purchase receipt all warranty documentation, and people from the supply house.

    He bought the unit, a CR-180(A) in 2009. In early 2010 the heat exchanger literally exploded. He received a new heat exchanger under warranty in January 2010. This last week the unit wouldn't fire and the board told him it was a faulty igniter.

    According to the salesman I spoke to later the fellow showed up at 4:15 last Friday and wanted the igniter. When it wasn't available the fellow went ballistic and stormed out.

    The fellow went to Menard's bought a 40 gallon water heater and installed it. Then this week he took the Navien tankless heater and drove an hour into town to this supply house and gave me the unit.

    He gave me two remotes, the heater, and all paperwork which was backed up by the supply house. The heat exchanger is a bit over a year old. The igniter costs ~$30. Other than that it is supposed to be OK.

    So my question is should I take this thing to the scrapyard. Use it as a boat anchor. Put it somewhere as a test unit. Put it in my house and use the water heater as a storage tank and put in a recirc pump. (just to have some fun) What would the wise person do?
    Time flies like an arrow.

    Fruit flies like a banana.

    Comment


    • Re: Navien tankless heaters

      Originally posted by geno gardner View Post
      Two days ago I was leaving a local plumbing supply house and a guy gets out of his minivan and asks me if I'm a plumber. I lied and said yes.

      He asks me if I want a slightly used tankless water heater. I must have looked at him strangely because he told me it wasn't stolen. His story, documented by his purchase receipt all warranty documentation, and people from the supply house.

      He bought the unit, a CR-180(A) in 2009. In early 2010 the heat exchanger literally exploded. He received a new heat exchanger under warranty in January 2010. This last week the unit wouldn't fire and the board told him it was a faulty igniter.

      According to the salesman I spoke to later the fellow showed up at 4:15 last Friday and wanted the igniter. When it wasn't available the fellow went ballistic and stormed out.

      The fellow went to Menard's bought a 40 gallon water heater and installed it. Then this week he took the Navien tankless heater and drove an hour into town to this supply house and gave me the unit.

      He gave me two remotes, the heater, and all paperwork which was backed up by the supply house. The heat exchanger is a bit over a year old. The igniter costs ~$30. Other than that it is supposed to be OK.

      So my question is should I take this thing to the scrapyard. Use it as a boat anchor. Put it somewhere as a test unit. Put it in my house and use the water heater as a storage tank and put in a recirc pump. (just to have some fun) What would the wise person do?
      First choice is Junk it

      Second choice is to install it as a tester in my own house along side my 40 gallon nat gas heater and run some real world numbers with pictures so people can see once and for all that a tankless is not the end all it is being sold as... You could become a NAIVEN specialist for the betterment of plumbers everywhere.

      Comment


      • Re: Navien tankless heaters

        "He received a new heat exchanger under warranty in January 2010"

        Something sounds weird.

        I talked to them about a failed unit once and they were clear to me, they never ship replacement heat exchangers or gas valves, only the entire unit

        Comment


        • Re: Navien tankless heaters

          Originally posted by Lee H View Post
          "He received a new heat exchanger under warranty in January 2010"

          Something sounds weird.

          I talked to them about a failed unit once and they were clear to me, they never ship replacement heat exchangers or gas valves, only the entire unit
          Lee, I repeated what the salesman told me. I just now checked the invoices. (Original purchase, return credit, and invoice for new heater. The guy definitely said heat exchanger, but you're absolutely correct, the fellow ordered a replacement unit on 1/27/10 and got a new one on 3/1/10. Or at least that's the invoice date.
          Time flies like an arrow.

          Fruit flies like a banana.

          Comment


          • Re: Navien tankless heaters

            Originally posted by Mrjosiah111 View Post
            The company that I work for has just recently switched to Navien. They used to install Rinnai, but ran into major issues. Because Alberta is wicked cold in the winter time, the Rinnai's would freeze up solid because of the condensation from the intake/venting. because of the set up a cold wind would blow the moist exhaust back into the intake and freeze the machine. So a number of the copper lines in the machine would freeze and burst. Rannai is a Japanese company, their winters do not reach much below
            -10 C. Also their tankless units are mounted on the outside of their houses. So use in a really cold climate is not that great. Also a big problem was that Rinnai would not warantee their parts. So in order to fix a problem, they would have to buy another whole machine. Navien on the other hand, because of the separate venting and intake should, if installed properly, should eliminate the freezing problem in really cold winters. Also Navien DOES warantee their parts, so if a problem arises, it should be relatively easy and cost effective to fix.

            weird, also being from alberta i have never experienced this problem, even after 100+ installs in 3 years. excepting once where unit was left unplugged overnight in -30 by another trade needing recepticle in an unfinished house. do i stand by and recommend rinnai's products? yes i do. my call backs consist of a one dirty flame sensor and frost plugging air intake on vent. your desire of mounting directly on outside wall facing north wind and a short vent would be your issues.

            Comment


            • Re: Navien tankless heaters

              Originally posted by geno gardner View Post
              Lee, I repeated what the salesman told me. I just now checked the invoices. (Original purchase, return credit, and invoice for new heater. The guy definitely said heat exchanger, but you're absolutely correct, the fellow ordered a replacement unit on 1/27/10 and got a new one on 3/1/10. Or at least that's the invoice date.
              So he handed you a free unit?

              Comment


              • Re: Navien tankless heaters

                Originally posted by Lee H View Post
                So he handed you a free unit?
                Yep. It's sitting in my garage just waiting for me to decide what to do with it. I will not under any circumstances sell it to a customer. Maybe I'll put it on craigslist and sell it as it.

                I'm going to be installing a corner Am Stan Savonna whirlpool in my tenant's basement. I was going to install a 2nd water heater to fill it, but maybe I'll give this Navien a shot instead. Although 4.5 GPM is a slow flow rate when you want to fill a big tub imo. Maybe there's a way I can install the Navien in parallel with the 50 gallon tank water heater I installed last year. Or perhaps feed the Navien with water through a mixing valve to say 85 degrees tempered from the other water heater to increase the flow rate? (I don't know if that's possible and will have to check with the factory). This would give me a chance to see if the Navien is a decent unit without irritating a customer.
                Time flies like an arrow.

                Fruit flies like a banana.

                Comment


                • Re: Navien tankless heaters

                  omg....this thread has had over 95,800 views. wow.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Navien tankless heaters

                    I posted on this thread about a year ago regarding my positive experience with Navien...

                    Well since then we have had problems with the machine spooling up to full speed then shutting off leaving us with cold water showers, the thing leaked water for months, the circuit board was replaced, the pumps were replaced and a pressure valve was replaced. We now have a bellow coming from the Navien when the water is turned on and the plumber has been authorized to replace the entire device with a new model as they believe it is a gas valve issue.

                    It has all been under warranty but I can't help thinking that the plumbing company has lost money on this heater with all the 2 -4 hour service calls they've made in the past year.

                    My wife wants a Bosch...
                    Last edited by mr.steevo; 04-21-2011, 01:58 PM.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Navien tankless heaters

                      Originally posted by mr.steevo View Post
                      My wife wants a Bosch...


                      Comment


                      • Re: Navien tankless heaters

                        Originally posted by geno gardner View Post
                        Yep. It's sitting in my garage just waiting for me to decide what to do with it. I will not under any circumstances sell it to a customer. Maybe I'll put it on craigslist and sell it as it.

                        I'm going to be installing a corner Am Stan Savonna whirlpool in my tenant's basement. I was going to install a 2nd water heater to fill it, but maybe I'll give this Navien a shot instead. Although 4.5 GPM is a slow flow rate when you want to fill a big tub imo. Maybe there's a way I can install the Navien in parallel with the 50 gallon tank water heater I installed last year. Or perhaps feed the Navien with water through a mixing valve to say 85 degrees tempered from the other water heater to increase the flow rate? (I don't know if that's possible and will have to check with the factory). This would give me a chance to see if the Navien is a decent unit without irritating a customer.
                        I finally decided what to do with the free Navien unit that a totally PO'd owner gave to me in a parking lot. I got the igniter kit, and ordered a vent collar which was missing. Other than that it seemed to be complete. I gave it to my journeyman plumber. He seemed interested in it. I haven't had any time to do something with it, so I offered it, and he jumped at it like a muskie on a sunfish. Now I have more room in the garage.
                        Time flies like an arrow.

                        Fruit flies like a banana.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Navien tankless heaters

                          Another follow up on the Navien.

                          Our unit was replaced with another Navien but a different model (NR-240). It looks different on the outside but is quieter than the original. I've noticed a change in the way it heats water with a lower flow (sorry I don't know the terminology) in that I can now wash my dishes while having the tap running very lightly. Before the water would turn cold but now the system stays on and keeps the trickle of water hot. No issues with cold water, noises, leaks or complete shut downs. I feel that Navien has finally put out a product that my wife and I are happy with.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Navien tankless heaters

                            Originally posted by mr.steevo View Post
                            Another follow up on the Navien.

                            Our unit was replaced with another Navien but a different model (NR-240). It looks different on the outside but is quieter than the original. I've noticed a change in the way it heats water with a lower flow (sorry I don't know the terminology) in that I can now wash my dishes while having the tap running very lightly. Before the water would turn cold but now the system stays on and keeps the trickle of water hot. No issues with cold water, noises, leaks or complete shut downs. I feel that Navien has finally put out a product that my wife and I are happy with.
                            How many days or weeks where you with out hot water? As with your first post the unit worked fine at first, lets see what happens as time goes on.
                            Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
                            A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
                            Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
                            Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

                            Comment


                            • Re: Navien tankless heaters

                              "I feel that Navien has finally put out a product that my wife and I are happy with."

                              So, you have something that finally works and you are Happy with Navien? Based on the fact that you were even considering a Bosch Tankless kinda says that you are not doing any sort of homework on your purchases.

                              Seriously, Just pick up a consumer reports, A little internet searching, anything...

                              Comment


                              • Re: Navien tankless heaters

                                Originally posted by SewerRatz View Post
                                How many days or weeks where you with out hot water? As with your first post the unit worked fine at first, lets see what happens as time goes on.
                                The original system was replaced in March and now it's 5 months later. I didn't want to post immediately after it was replaced as I wanted to get a feel for the thing. The first one started having problems after only a few months and then progressed to the lack of hot water shortly before the one year mark. We never went without hot water for days rather the thing would wind up to full speed and shut off for 30 seconds before starting to heat again. It would do this intermittently when the tub was being filled.

                                As for the Bosch comment I was joking. It's like saying I should have bought a Lada. I'll use the smiley face next time.

                                The new model seems stable but I'll feel more comfortable after we get through the winter season problem free. I'll post an update in Spring of 2012.

                                Comment

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