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  • Re: Navien tankless heaters

    I had a 320 A unit installed about 18 months ago. Lots of problems with the flow control and we also had the circuit board replaced. Today again we are down with error Code 38 which is not in the manual. Have had this error code before resulting in a new circuit board. So far I am not happy with the unit.

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    • Re: Navien tankless heaters

      Hello. I am new here on this forum! nice to meet you all. But yea, I installed couple Naviens because of the price and also the built-in recirculation pump, but they are crap! Bunch of problems with flow sensor and motherboard. Customers are not happy with Navien. I only installed couple to try them out, but I usually installed Noritz and they recently came out with the NRC98, which I can use 3" PVC up to 60+ feet !! Price is cheap than Naviens!

      Stay away from Navien!!!

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      • Re: Navien tankless heaters

        We've had our replacement Navien for a year now and it has problems. For no apparent reason the hot water pressure will drop down to zero for several seconds and then return. It is impossible to know when it will happen or replicate it. The plumbing company knows about the issue but have stated they have to see it happen before they can even try to diagnose the issue.

        Crap products.

        s.

        Comment


        • Re: Navien tankless heaters

          I am a homeowner with a Navien tankless water heater. It was installed a couple years ago by a handyman that works for me regularly. The heater has worked fine until a couple of days ago when the error code 38 showed up.
          The local supply house that talked me into buying the unit referred me to the Navien tech support after scolding me for not hiring a licensed plumber, indicating that the warranty might not be valid because of that.
          It took several calls to get in touch with somebody at the tech center. He walked me through the diagnosis steps which seem to indicate that the flow sensor needs to be cleaned, which seems to be a common problem.
          I have to admit that I have not done the recommended yearly descaling, which might in part be responsible for the dirty flow sensor. So today I spent another couple hundred $$ for the descaling kit with the same local supply house ( living in small town USA doesn't give me many choices).
          One of my projects for the weekend will be to fix my hot water heater. Will report back what happens.
          Too bad I was in a rush to get hot water when the old one broke. If I had read all the negative opinions on the Internet I would not have bought the Navien unit.

          Comment


          • Re: Navien tankless heaters

            not much more than a circulator pump and some vinegar or clr which i don't agree with.

            rick.
            phoebe it is

            Comment


            • Re: Navien tankless heaters

              As many of you all know, i am a tech. I have a Navien CR-210A LP I installed in 2008. The decision was made to install after the 80 gallon electric HWT puked. I have a water softener system that reduces my hardness to 2 grains/0 ppm iron; down from 26 grains hardness/ 4 parts or iron. Since 2008 I have never had to flush the system. Periodically I have checked the intake screen and flow sensor with no problems found. A slight residue was found internally as we have a small bacterial issue now and then. Mostly during the summer as our well is located in the cow pasture.

              A month ago was when we first had problems - code 38. Gas pressure issue. Our LP pressure was right in line with the maximum incoming pressure on the rating plate. I think it was 13" Water Column. Gas usage and pressure drop was all within range. Turned out that this code happened in conjunction with a poor flame sensor. I cleaned that periodically as well but it got a little bent out of shape from the heat. Replacing that caused the issues to go away.

              We then upgraded to the newer board that allowed to modulate for well pressure changes. The original board was Rev 1.0. After changing the board, with all the exact DIP switch settings, the recirc action would never stop: pumps runs, 30 seconds goes by, unit fires for 5 seconds, quits, postpurge for 5 plus minutes, repeat ad infinitum.

              Called technical support - mind you, this unit had only a 3 yr warranty, they now have 5 yr - didnt have to wait on hold. The tech sent out the updated board. Installed that 2 days later. Same problem. Called back - no wait - tech talked to me, then engineering, the sent new:

              - board
              - remote
              - wiring
              - flow switch
              - recalled thermistor elbows (mine were the grey ones)
              - recalled vent adapters
              - flow restrictor
              - intake screen
              - flame sensor
              - multiple o-ring kits
              - misc pipes for pump adaptation (not used in my application)

              All overnight shipped. No cost to me. On an out of warranty unit. It did fix the problem. The old thermistors don't work with the new board. I now have a box with enough parts to fix 3 units.

              I guess I'm one of the lucky ones. Customer service was excellent and my unit has had very few actual problems.
              ~~

              ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

              Comment


              • Re: Navien tankless heaters

                Originally posted by Plumber Punky View Post
                As many of you all know, i am a tech. I have a Navien CR-210A LP I installed in 2008. The decision was made to install after the 80 gallon electric HWT puked. I have a water softener system that reduces my hardness to 2 grains/0 ppm iron; down from 26 grains hardness/ 4 parts or iron. Since 2008 I have never had to flush the system. Periodically I have checked the intake screen and flow sensor with no problems found. A slight residue was found internally as we have a small bacterial issue now and then. Mostly during the summer as our well is located in the cow pasture.

                A month ago was when we first had problems - code 38. Gas pressure issue. Our LP pressure was right in line with the maximum incoming pressure on the rating plate. I think it was 13" Water Column. Gas usage and pressure drop was all within range. Turned out that this code happened in conjunction with a poor flame sensor. I cleaned that periodically as well but it got a little bent out of shape from the heat. Replacing that caused the issues to go away.

                We then upgraded to the newer board that allowed to modulate for well pressure changes. The original board was Rev 1.0. After changing the board, with all the exact DIP switch settings, the recirc action would never stop: pumps runs, 30 seconds goes by, unit fires for 5 seconds, quits, postpurge for 5 plus minutes, repeat ad infinitum.

                Called technical support - mind you, this unit had only a 3 yr warranty, they now have 5 yr - didnt have to wait on hold. The tech sent out the updated board. Installed that 2 days later. Same problem. Called back - no wait - tech talked to me, then engineering, the sent new:

                - board
                - remote
                - wiring
                - flow switch
                - recalled thermistor elbows (mine were the grey ones)
                - recalled vent adapters
                - flow restrictor
                - intake screen
                - flame sensor
                - multiple o-ring kits
                - misc pipes for pump adaptation (not used in my application)

                All overnight shipped. No cost to me. On an out of warranty unit. It did fix the problem. The old thermistors don't work with the new board. I now have a box with enough parts to fix 3 units.

                I guess I'm one of the lucky ones. Customer service was excellent and my unit has had very few actual problems.
                You consider the litany of problems you have described "very few actual problems"...

                The manufacturer not being able to fix your problem sent you a box of parts, even parts that you don't need and that is a good thing?

                Glad Navien was kind enough to cover your unit out of warranty:-)


                This thread is a testament to the poor engineering and products produced by Navien

                Comment


                • Re: Navien tankless heaters

                  And think about the cost for the customer to pay Punky or others to troubleshoot, try, get parts, try again,....there goes any magical savings.

                  My tank gas heater is about 11 years old. Done nothing to it. Can't remember the last time it was drained. Could go any second as quality has been purposely decreased in my opinion. Still beats all the tankless though.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Navien tankless heaters

                    Originally posted by OkieBill View Post
                    You consider the litany of problems you have described "very few actual problems"...

                    The manufacturer not being able to fix your problem sent you a box of parts, even parts that you don't need and that is a good thing?

                    Glad Navien was kind enough to cover your unit out of warranty:-)


                    This thread is a testament to the poor engineering and products produced by Navien
                    The only problem i had was maintenance related - the flame sensor - between 2008 and late 2012. I would consider that normal wear and tear. Many high efficient boilers have the same problem with flame sensors.

                    I would think that the problem they have is more with the lack of information available to the support staff. Yes, I got a box of parts, but that was after the tech talked to the engineering staff. The engineering staff told the support guy to send the thermistors. The other parts he sent on his own, "just to make sure". I'd bet they don't have many customers trying to use the latest programmed board with the v1.0 parts.

                    Originally posted by BobsPlumbing View Post
                    And think about the cost for the customer to pay Punky or others to troubleshoot, try, get parts, try again,....there goes any magical savings.

                    My tank gas heater is about 11 years old. Done nothing to it. Can't remember the last time it was drained. Could go any second as quality has been purposely decreased in my opinion. Still beats all the tankless though.
                    In this case, no money had to be paid, as it was my own unit. But I do see your point. We have had similar problems with power vented water heater controls and inducer blowers from Carrier variable speed furnaces in the past. It's not just the tankless market. The customer gets PO'd and sooner or later everyone gets frustrated and money is lost.
                    ~~

                    ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

                    Comment


                    • Re: Navien tankless heaters

                      I have 4 installed and I was too Naive(N), Now I am smart. NO TANKLESS or THANKLESS HYBRIDS. I have over 50 units of various brands installed. I have been back on all but two within the last 8 years. I have Thousands of Bradfordwhite water heaters installed. Maybe have been back on 8 or 10. I recently had a 3 year old Naiven Cr240A crap out. Tech support kept telling me the gas line was undersized. I offered to send him my chart to show the sizing, and he asked "What Chart". The house is sized correctly. I don't undersize gas. Tech support hung up on me. I have even made a device that I can check Flow under heavy use. Everything was fine. I called the local rep, I said we need a new unit, this one is in bad shape. He started giving me parts. He came out and looked at the unit. Said it was a fluke. He was so boastful that he had fixed it. I had been out to this house 8 times. He gave the Homeowner his personal cell. I heard nothing for about two weeks, then I get this email from the rep to my homeowner with "for the Crybaby Plumber" in the subject and it was an exchange order for a new unit. I get the new unit and put it in. It is now working fine. I find out that he came out 4 more times then quit and agreed with me. Customer was MAD! Not so much at me, but at the situation. I Charged the homeowner NOTHING for my visits because I had bought in to the LIE and sold them on the Tankless. If you have been through any Tankless classes, then you know what I am talking about. It is implied and even told to us outright. You Should not have any problems with tankless for 10,15, or 20 years. These are better than Tanked. BS!!!!!!!. Even the gas savings are off. The Energy Guides are "Guides" and not even close to accurate. I have dealt with Tankless for over 15 years now, and it is a pipe dream/Nightmare. Don't be Naive as I was. I will still install them and work on them, but I do not promote them and you can bet that every customer that I put on in for is told upfront how I feel. The one's that still want one, know that if they call me on a Friday at 4pm for a repair, then It will cost them or they may have to wait till Monday, I have spent too many late nights fixing these things. My advice. Leave yourself a way out and put it in writing how you will handle warranty claims. I would be money ahead, if I just had put in tanks.
                      "don't put that in your mouth, you don't know where it's been"

                      Comment


                      • Re: Navien tankless heaters

                        Takagi Repiar - YouTube

                        Check out My Takagi Repair on a 9 month old unit, and tell me how many Takagi units you want to work on.
                        "don't put that in your mouth, you don't know where it's been"

                        Comment


                        • Re: Navien tankless heaters

                          Your links or pictures don't work. But to answer, probably none.

                          Had one with the ignitor apparently bad. Only thing I could find in the chain. And you have to completely disassemble that mother#$@$@! to get too it.

                          You fixed your link. That's a great video. Thanks.
                          Last edited by BobsPlumbing; 10-17-2012, 10:46 PM.

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                          • Re: Navien tankless heaters

                            jay, great video and overlay

                            the only thing i fault you on is it took you 15 years to figure out that "tankless is just a bunch of hot air and over stretched lies"

                            rick.
                            phoebe it is

                            Comment


                            • Re: Navien tankless heaters

                              Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                              jay, great video and overlay

                              the only thing i fault you on is it took you 15 years to figure out that "tankless is just a bunch of hot air and over stretched lies"

                              rick.
                              I am a little slow. Too much Glue and Cleaner as a kid. I believed! Tankless is like a cult. Easy to get in, hard to get out.
                              "don't put that in your mouth, you don't know where it's been"

                              Comment


                              • Re: Navien tankless heaters

                                After installing and working on Takagi and Noritz I drank the Bosch Pro Tankless koolaid. If you open up a Bosch, Takagi, Noritz and Rinnai side by side you will appreciate the Bosch as a service guy.

                                BUT........

                                Bosch until recently had a great local showroom and AWESOME tech in Chris Rizzo. Bosch decided to bypass the distributors and sell direct. Understandably pizzin off a lot of people who worked hard to promote the brand. SMOOTH MOVE BOSCH KNUCKLEHEADS! Nobody carries the Bosch as yet, I have to get them from the new manufactors rep, who has been VERY helpful. When a customer wants a tankless and its a good fit I'm still gonna spec the Bosch PRO series. I HOPE this does not come back to bite me!

                                Good installation is KEY in any brand, but I really like the Bosch guts.

                                wookie

                                Had great tech support from Bosch when I had a local guy to contact 24/7 Thanks Chris Rizzo and Bob Brown. Right now its generic 8-4 m-f support. Maybe the manufactors haven't heard, equipment goes down after banking hours.lol
                                Last edited by wookie; 10-19-2012, 07:43 PM.

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