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I had a Navien CR-240A model installed about 3 months ago and it worked well, until about 1 month ago when the unit shutdown with an Error 10 (Abnormal Air Pressure).
When it shutdown, it was cold out probably below -30 without the wind.
I managed it get it to startup, but then it quit again a few hours later with an Error 12 (Flame Loss). I could not get it to fire, with it reporting error 3 (Iginator failed) after every reboot.
I left the next day on vacation so our installer came over a few days later and he said the unit fired right up, he didn't do anything he said.
Ever since then though, the unit has been performing not as well and now it has quit again all together. The last few weeks the unit turns on/off around 3 times when water is called, thus increases the amount of time it takes to get hot water to the tap. After the 3rd time of it turning off, it did seem to run after that. Also, during the start up and shutdown, the unit seems a lot louder, making loud humming noises, before it shuts off, then starts back up.
Also, since the unit shutdown a month ago, it can no longer heat the water in our bathtub. The unit doesn't shutdown or produce errors, it just is not able to heat the water when I turn the water on in the bathtub
The unit supplies hot water to the house as well as my radiant floor heat in my basement. We have the external circ line attached so we have the unit set to external circulation. As a test a couple days ago, I set it back to internal circulation (turned the 3 way valve and turned dip switch 5 off and 4 on), and it error 10 as soon as I plugged it in.
I switched it back to external circ setup, and it now too gives error 10 at startup and will not work at all.
I have called Navien, but they haven't called me back yet.
Does anyone have any suggestions for me?
I noticed the air intake on my fan (internal one) is pointed towards the floor, and not the air intake hole at the top of the unit. Is that normal? Are yours like this?
Thanks for any help anyone might be able to provide
I was just having the same problem, I fixed it myself by removing and cleaning the water flow sense (part 52 on page 37 of the manual Components diagram & parts list). I hop ethis helps you.
Ok ive installed around 30 of these units now, 5 have been problems, but one has been a real headache, hot cold hot cold, shuts down for twenty seconds so they sent me a new board, Installed the new board and now i get error code 27, blocked vent intake.
Everything is clean as a whistle, so Now i have to wait for navian to answer, these customers are threatning to sew me, and rip the unit out, I sure wish I read this forum to see how much flack these units are geting,
Its a damn shame, because I do love installing them, and even though they rarely get the problem solved easily, there customer support is very quick and and friendly.
I looked at the above link. I want to replace my 8 year old bosch tankless. The hybrid looks like it might be a better choice for our hard water area. My wife is apposed to using a softener to reduce mineral content. I also looked at an A. O Smith condensing tank style water heater. They advertize above 90% efficiency but I don't think the two of us need a 50 gallon tank. Are the condensing style products reliable? I have had 2 condensing furnaces and they both were extremely reliable.
We recently installed a Natural Gas Navien 210. We use the internal recirculation pump that seems to work fine.
After the installation with the temperature set to 125 degrees, we found that when showing there is a definite temperature profile that goes from 100 degrees at start and climbed to 110 after a few minutes, holds this temperature then goes to about 90 degrees requiring multiple adjustments in the shower.
We had the rep come and clean all the filters and we set the temperature to 110 degrees as our incoming water supply was 38 degrees and there was too large a rise. He also ran the setup procedure so the system could learn the max flow and gas rating that is supposed to fix all problems.
Now after a month we had an “event” where the unit would only heat the water to 106 degrees. I removed the filters that looked fine and set the temperature to 116 degrees. It now seemed to recognize that temperature limit.
Is there a failure in the system?
We only shower (no tub baths) and my wife hates it! Heaven forbid someone runs any water anywhere else in the house while she is showing much less have the dishwasher or washing machine operating. The temperature fluctuates 5 to 10 degrees (fortunately on the cold side!) , of course my wife turns up the temperature, then the unit recovers and then it is too hot.
I have though about installing a constant temperature shower valve so solve the problem. Any inputs or ideas are greatly appreciated.
So I have had some issues with my Navien CC240A. I have a home run system and single presure balanced taps all over the house. I have the unit set to external recirculation on a schedule with the maifold in the recirc loop.
I live in Edmonton AB and the water temp is 40F in and I am heating it to 125F out. My presure in the house is 60 PSI in.
Here is my issue. The unit has a flow sensor ( to detemine when to start making hot water, it also has a buffer tank and a constrictor valve that can reduce the flow of water. So the two sides are not 30 PSI and 30 PSI when at 50% mix at the shower. So when every a toliet is flushed or any change in pressure on either side ( hot or cold ) the Navien starts changing the demand of water, as well as the shower valve starts trying to balance the presure. So the result is what I call Water temp feedback. ( just like when you get too close to a speaker and you are holding the mike. The amp would make a loud scream and the blow a fuse ) But in the water world, the Navien starts making hot hot water and then starts to burn the shower victim, then the presure valve starts to flap again and freeze the victim. This goes on for about 30 - 50 seconds until the tap is happy with the flow and the Navien is happy as well. I have come up with a few ideas that may fix it but don't really want to implement the 2nd option because of the energy waste.
1st option, should I install a pressure balance unit that takes the cold and the hot and makes them the same pressure before the manifold? How will that affect my recirc on the manifold and would it stop the flip flop burn cold crap. (if so I would like a 3/4 unit and am looking for a brand you have used ( manual is okay, electronic would be fine if it reacts faster.
2st option, place a mixing valve on that hot that mixes the cold and make the pressure the same, while also putting the Navien into Pro mode and heating the water to 145ish. ( gas savings are probably out the window if I do that right?)
3rd option, say screw it to the taps at the sinks ( because balance is not a important), and install tempature regulated shower valves?
4th,, ideas are welcome.
BTW overall I think the technology in the Navien is great, however if they would take the hot in and give you hot and cold out, which both balancing the pressure on both sides, I think they would have an awesome system.
5th expeimental, Take the wires off the valve that restricks flow, and add 2 wires and then take the cold though the same take of valve ( may not be clear, daisy chain so that the hot valve position is also applied to the cold outside the unit.
When I check Navien's web site I only see model numbers starting with "CH" rather than "CR." Anyone know if these are the same as the units that people have been having trouble with or if they are materially different?
They look great on paper. No stainless steel vent, extremely good price. I'd like to hope the issues are just teething problems and once they shake them out this will be a great product but experience tells me not to depend on that.
The "CH" says you are looking at the combo heating units. the "CR" is only residential hot water with the recalculating pump feature. I have the Navien representative come out today to see if I have a bad flow meter or if the firmware needs updating.
My wife surprised me last week while I was showering by using a bathroom sink fixture and the water temperature dropped about 10 degrees for several minutes. If you turn up the temperature during that time, then it comes back too hot. I hope they can fix the problem today.
I would ask for a money back guarantee if you don’t like it.
Because of the problems I saw reported on this forum I called Navien to see what they had to say. The guy I reached on the 800 # was nice enough but clueless so I called back on the direct line and managed to reach the western sales manager who seemed pretty knowledgeable.
I asked him about the issues with the turbine and it seems they've made some sort of change to address that. It isn't clear to me what exactly was going on but to his credit he was very forthright that there had been an issue.
What I'm hoping will happen is that he will respond the problems reported here and work with people to sort out (or not) the various issues. Hopefully that will not only solve (or not) whatever problems these people are having but also provide information to Navien and the rest of us considering these heaters to see what is going on.
Maybe whatever problems people are experiencing are small things that can be fixed, whether problems with the units or installation, but if not and the problems run deeper this ought to help us get to the bottom of it.
When I was considering buying an older home, I had looked into tankless heaters as a replacement since the water heater was old, and probably on its last legs. I asked a contractor who specialized in "green" technologies what he thought about them, and he said they were a waste of time and money. He claimed that for average households, any savings you made by not keeping a tank full of hot water at the ready were drastically cut down when super-heating the water to get it up to the desired temperature. Reliability seemed to be an issue too, though it sounds like that has been addressed by the leading brands already.
Is there any truth behind his claims? Or do you think he was just trying to dismiss the whole tankless market to make his preferred and more costly solar water heating systems more appealing?