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Navien tankless heaters

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  • #61
    Re: Navien tankless heaters

    Hello,
    Can you let me know how things are going with your Navien issues? I would like your honest advice if you would recommend or not the Navien tankless WH as I have to make some choice quite soon and theoratically this was my first pick... now I have some questions marks
    Thanks for your time and help

    Comment


    • #62
      Re: Navien tankless heaters

      This blog is a great find! Coincidentally, while beginning to research tankless water heaters my water tank blew. I have had a quote from one plumber I really liked. He can install Bosch or Rinnai. Very knowledgeable and had lots of great options to suggest for other work I am considering. However, I am having two more estimates. The company coming tomorrow installs Rinnai, but are really pushing the Navien. I hadn't even heard of this brand but I am most decidedly thinking this is a company that seems to have a great idea that was unleashed on the market before it was perfected. There seems to be a lot of good feeling about Noritz, though I haven't yet found anybody in the Vancouver, BC area who carries them. Any ideas?

      Comment


      • #63
        Re: Navien tankless heaters CR-210A error code 3

        Hi, I had a Navien CR-210A and new gas system installed in late fall 2008. Local gas company sold unit in coordination with local installer. Maybe a month later, Navien techs came out and replaced the water flow meter sensor or so it seemed. Everything worked fine for several months.

        Starting about 3 months ago and increasing in frequency since, get error code 003 (ignition failure) and have to turn the unit back on to get operating again.

        I called gas company, they left msg back to call installer. There is no way in h*e*l*l I would want the installation company back in the house. Very poor installation quality and erratic personal behaviour. So I am pursuing other resources for support on this problem.

        I had a 2lb gas system installed as part of installation. 60 feet of 3/4" flexible stainless pipe from new meter to regulator, then into a cobbled up black pipe manifold which feeds Navien and 40kBTU Pulse furnace, 25kBTU gas fireplace, and gas dryer.

        I ran the 3/4" flex piping. The first thing the installer did when he attached the coupler from inside the house to the outside meter is to bend a crimp in the 3/4" flex to make a tight right angle into the horizontal coupler. This bend shocked me as the piping tech manual was clear about bending radii to be maintained. Then on the manifold end another crappy bend but not as bad as first bend. There was no gas pressure testing done.

        Here is my question: Before I blame the Navien (which has worked quite well except for this problem) does anyone care to comment on the possiblity of the poor pipe bending causing reduced gas supply to Navien ignition unit causing the ignition failure? Or could it just be a gas regulator adjustment issue?

        Thank you for any contributions or suggestions.

        Comment


        • #64
          Re: Navien tankless heaters

          Followup on the Navien error code 003. Actually the unit is a CR-180A. Duh.

          I talked to Navien support. They were very helpful and knowledgeable. He had me take the cover off. Just turns out the unit had shut down when I went to remove cover. Error code 003. There was a yellow led slowly blinking on board. He said that was indicator for low gas pressure.

          I talked to gas company. they are sending out manometer to check pressure levels in a week or so. It all makes sense so far. When all other gas appliances are on and tankless is on high fire, there cannot be more than a certain pressure drop.

          I will again follow up with results.

          Comment


          • #65
            Re: Navien tankless heaters

            Originally posted by rme View Post
            Followup on the Navien error code 003. Actually the unit is a CR-180A. Duh.

            I talked to Navien support. They were very helpful and knowledgeable. He had me take the cover off. Just turns out the unit had shut down when I went to remove cover. Error code 003. There was a yellow led slowly blinking on board. He said that was indicator for low gas pressure.

            I talked to gas company. they are sending out manometer to check pressure levels in a week or so. It all makes sense so far. When all other gas appliances are on and tankless is on high fire, there cannot be more than a certain pressure drop.

            I will again follow up with results.

            Did the gas company find the problem?
            DIRTFT

            Comment


            • #66
              Re: Navien tankless heaters

              Hi, thanks for your interest. Nov 24 is the scheduled day for the gas company to come out. I will be posting a followup with what they find.

              Comment


              • #67
                Re: Navien tankless heaters

                Gas company came out Nov 25 as planned. As directed by Navien tech support, he measured gas pressures (static, with all other gas appliances running, and with Navien running.)
                Evidently the gas company street main pressures are at the 45 lb level. The gas meter (500kBTU capacity) regulates to 2lbs which is run via 3/4" stainless flex 50ft to 0.5lb regulator.

                Static gas pressure on my side of the 0.5lb regulator was 8.5inches of water. With the 40kBTU Lennox Pulse furnace going, the pressure dropped to 8.15inches. Adding in the 25kBTU fireplace dropped pressure to 8.1inches. Addingin the ~30kBTU clothes dryer dropped pressure to 8.0inches.

                With all the above running, kicking in the 180kBTU water heater dropped pressure to 7.9inches.
                Navien tech support was on the line during the measurements which seem to be well within the gas pressure operating range of the Navien. I did some more start/stop reset unit tests and everything checked out ok. The next step is going to be replacing the unit's computer control board.

                The 03 ignition failure has not happened for the past couple weeks so definitely something intermittent going on. Today I had a msg the Navien district sales rep had called.

                To summarize at this point: Still think the Navien is a great unit and it works just fine most all of the time. I have received good tech support from gas company and Navien. It is a new generation of product that of highly technical design which heavily relies on computer controlled operation. There are bound to be bugs and issues that need to get worked out. I am an early adopter coming from a computer engineering background so these types of experiences are not unusual for me with products early in their cycle. It is the price I am most always willing to pay to get leading edge technology now.

                I will follow up after board swap.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Re: Navien tankless heaters

                  Eh, Navien User,
                  Did you activate the "well function" on the remote? This is to compensate for pressure swings in the system.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: Navien tankless heaters

                    try extending the vent pipe a foot or two , my have to try several time to change the resonance

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: Navien tankless heaters

                      I install dozens of manablock systems yearly, and am told the recirc feature will work well with this manfold homerun system. I wonder if anyone else has tried this application yet?

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Re: Navien tankless heaters

                        My Navien is working great now , I had to add a pressure reducer to the hot water entering the unit to keep the water pressure constant , my submersible pump kicks out at 60 psi and on at 40 psi . The water temp never changes in the shower now . I had this in since march 09 , the temp here earlier this month for 1.5 weeks was - 33 C with a wind chill of -56 C , and for the first time I had to go thaw out the vent stack , there was a quarter size opening open in the 3 " pipe . I think that the stainless steel screw on the concentric vent gives the water vapour some place to start forming on ..

                        I would recommend the cr240 unit ..
                        Last edited by Total; 12-20-2009, 09:42 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: Navien tankless heaters

                          Update on Navien CR-180A Error 003.

                          Interesting info on the water pressure issues. I will try the "well" on remote after a week or so. Sounds plausible to me that water pressure could be to blame and I had messed with it after spouse complaints about low shower pressure while old style 5gal toilet filled. I got the gauge and set the pressure correctly and then turned down the flow into the toilet to help aleviate that issue.

                          I have about 42" on exhaust line and about 30" on intake line with one 90deg elbow on each. Have not tried extending exhaust line. Good idea though. On my Pulse 40kBTU, there were some issues with venting. (Currently since extending the lines for furnace due to WH venting installations, the furnace is running smoother.)

                          Anyway, I got the new circuit board from Navien. I installed it a few days ago. No errors since. Unfortunately, I hadn't had any error code 003 for 3-4 weeks previous to the board install either! I will follow up in a few weeks.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Re: Navien tankless heaters

                            Originally posted by rme View Post
                            Update on Navien CR-180A Error 003.

                            Interesting info on the water pressure issues. I will try the "well" on remote after a week or so. Sounds plausible to me that water pressure could be to blame and I had messed with it after spouse complaints about low shower pressure while old style 5gal toilet filled. I got the gauge and set the pressure correctly and then turned down the flow into the toilet to help aleviate that issue.

                            I have about 42" on exhaust line and about 30" on intake line with one 90deg elbow on each. Have not tried extending exhaust line. Good idea though. On my Pulse 40kBTU, there were some issues with venting. (Currently since extending the lines for furnace due to WH venting installations, the furnace is running smoother.)

                            Anyway, I got the new circuit board from Navien. I installed it a few days ago. No errors since. Unfortunately, I hadn't had any error code 003 for 3-4 weeks previous to the board install either! I will follow up in a few weeks.
                            sorry but how do you select "well" on the remote ?? The Navien tech support sure know their stuff ..

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Re: Navien tankless heaters

                              Originally posted by Total View Post
                              sorry but how do you select "well" on the remote ?? The Navien tech support sure know their stuff ..
                              With the new control board, the CR-180A has hung up twice so far. Just sits, looking like it is working but does not come on when HW is demanded. Power cycling fixes condition. No error codes are visible on panel. This condition happened immediately after I installed the circuit board and this morning, 3 days later. When it happened immediately after board installation, I considered it might have been a fluke but now after this morning, it is confirmed. Spouse claims it takes much longer to get HW now at the sink.

                              I have looked for the "Well" setting also. No information on it that I can find.

                              Sounds like next options might be messing with water pressure regulator and the exhaust vent pipe length. I might just stick another elbow on it for some "tuning" affect.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Re: Navien tankless heaters

                                Originally posted by rme View Post
                                With the new control board, the CR-180A has hung up twice so far. Just sits, looking like it is working but does not come on when HW is demanded. Power cycling fixes condition. No error codes are visible on panel. This condition happened immediately after I installed the circuit board and this morning, 3 days later. When it happened immediately after board installation, I considered it might have been a fluke but now after this morning, it is confirmed. Spouse claims it takes much longer to get HW now at the sink.

                                I have looked for the "Well" setting also. No information on it that I can find.

                                Sounds like next options might be messing with water pressure regulator and the exhaust vent pipe length. I might just stick another elbow on it for some "tuning" affect.
                                Sounds maybe like a flow valve issue - I uploaded a how to from Navien to my server , http://www.extremetesting.tv/technical_202_WFS.ppt
                                you can check the flow valve very easy , and it might just need a good cleaning - detailed instuctions are in the file above ..
                                Last edited by Total; 12-23-2009, 10:38 PM.

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