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wood framing and shrinkage

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  • wood framing and shrinkage

    we've had discussions over the past few months talking about double drilling and wood shrinkage in new building construction.

    here are a couple of photos that show a shower ruff from 1987 on a 4 story wood framed building built over a 12'' thick raised slab/ garage.

    keep in mind that this is type m 3/4'' copper and is from the 3rd. floor that is under renovation.

    the reason why the 1/2'' hot, 3/4'' cold risers are bowed is because the shower valve had no expansion joints/ flex to allow for settling as the wood shrunk from all 4 levels. the valve being tiled into the wall had nowhere to move. if it had an expansion joint/ flex line, it would have allowed the pipe to move separate of the valve being dragged down.

    when i did new construction in this same city, we were required to double drill all the horizontal holes and also use a flex copper connector on the tub/ shower valves.

    a concrete and steel studded building would have not shrunk.

    rick.
    Attached Files
    phoebe it is

  • #2
    Re: wood framing and shrinkage

    A 4 story wood structured building is a flaming inferno, sprinklers or not.
    Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

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    • #3
      Re: wood framing and shrinkage

      That sure must be shrinky wood. I've never seen anything like that around here.

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      • #4
        Re: wood framing and shrinkage

        Guy ,doesn't like to wipe His joints ! No air chambers! Are they code now?
        As a carpenter , I deal with this often. Before engineered lumber We used 2x12s a lot of course.Plywood buckles out . frame shrinks Ply does not great pix
        I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

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        • #5
          Re: wood framing and shrinkage

          Originally posted by Herk View Post
          That sure must be shrinky wood. I've never seen anything like that around here.
          haven't you ever seen a bundle of 2x4's at h.d. or a lumber yard?

          the wood is wet and will shrink while it dries out.

          look at fences that were butted joints and look at it after a few months in the sun.

          figure a good 1.5'' on a 4 story building.

          on abs vertical piping over 20' we had to install expansion joints on both the waste and vent lines.

          rick.
          phoebe it is

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          • #6
            Re: wood framing and shrinkage

            HOLY COW!!! I dont really know what else to say about that!

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            • #7
              Re: wood framing and shrinkage

              Well, the lumber should be dried before building with it.

              I do know that wood shrinks. My own house, which is 100+ years old, was built poorly with lap siding of several different types. Over time, the siding shrunk and the house leaned in the direction of the prevailing wind. I have a self-closing front door. Quite an energy saver.

              Maybe the reason I haven't seen anything like that is because 4-story buildings are so rare, and it's unlikely that you'd see pipes run in line through all four floors.

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              • #8
                Re: wood framing and shrinkage

                Do you think earthquakes or tremors are a contributing factor? This brings up alot of issues with the plumbing code for securing pipes on the vertical.

                J.C.

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                • #9
                  Re: wood framing and shrinkage

                  Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                  Do you think earthquakes or tremors are a contributing factor? This brings up alot of issues with the plumbing code for securing pipes on the vertical.

                  J.C.

                  absolutely not.

                  on this type of building/ multi unit condo. the pipes need to be isolated from the wood or other building materials due to sound or dissimilar metals.

                  where we do have to worry about seismic is for water heaters and horizontal piping.

                  rick.
                  phoebe it is

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                  • #10
                    Re: wood framing and shrinkage

                    Just another reason to use pex
                    sigpic

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                    • #11
                      Re: wood framing and shrinkage

                      Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                      Just another reason to use pex
                      i agree

                      unfortunately, calif. has been the last hold out state and this building was built pre pex days.

                      honestly, if i still did re-pipes, i would most likely choose pex with a central manifold system.

                      i do own a wirsboro pex expander that i bought about 5 years ago when it was legal for a short time on domestic water.

                      the real issue with the copper installation was lack of an expansion joint at the shower valve.

                      we always used a cxc corrugated flex/ quick In's. some companies used a short 1' section of soft copper at the valve connection. but i don't think that would have the same benefits as a our corrugated flex.

                      on the abs waste/ vent lines, we used a telescoping expansion joint that had +or- 2'' of movement. this was installed on the 2nd floor of a 3 story building. back then 3 stories was the limit on plastic.


                      rick.
                      phoebe it is

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                      • #12
                        Re: wood framing and shrinkage

                        In the 80s I was working Hi risers in S.F. Mostly setting pre cast panels on the buildings exterior. It's amazing all the considerations engineered for E.Q.S expansion sections for verticle all plumbing , Waste, and sprinklers. ELEC sub panels have coilspring mounts.
                        Pixar in Emeryville ca. is over the Hayward fault. 2 stories 2000,000 Sq. Ft.
                        Building is designed to move ,up to 27" in any direction in an E.Q. In the area under the Bldg. [ I'VE BEEN THERE] there are B.F. Goodrich isolators for the building to slide on.
                        All elec. waste, plumbing Ect. is supplied in large flex.100,000 mil. building.

                        This has little to do with the wood shrinkage! There's lots of people on this forum ,from far away , that might enjoy reading about the way We build in Ca.
                        Last edited by toolaholic; 08-20-2008, 11:35 AM.
                        I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

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                        • #13
                          Re: wood framing and shrinkage

                          Originally posted by Herk View Post
                          That sure must be shrinky wood. I've never seen anything like that around here.
                          This didn't happen with old growth lumber from the early 1900s, but today the stuff hits the racks at the lumber yard so fast after being felled the lumber barely knows it not a tree anymore.
                          ---------------
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                          “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
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                          "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
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                          • #14
                            Re: wood framing and shrinkage

                            Originally posted by Bob D. View Post
                            This didn't happen with old growth lumber from the early 1900s, but today the stuff hits the racks at the lumber yard so fast after being felled the lumber barely knows it not a tree anymore.
                            Of course it didn't Bob! They crapped in chamber pots and out houses!
                            I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

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                            • #15
                              Re: wood framing and shrinkage

                              RICKEY BOY, You didn't answer the question on air chambers. You don't use them South?
                              Air chambers in N.Y.???????????? P.S. I'm not being a smart A$$ for once.
                              I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

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