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So where do we draw the line

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  • #31
    Re: So where do we draw the line

    personally i think the line "you can afford a house you can afford a plumber" is bs and condescending. We dont know anyones financial situations and it is really none of our business. How do you know what their house is like, maybe their house is bare bones because they lost there job and sold everything they had but the house to put food on the table. Today's economy has a very unstable job market. People are loosing jobs and homes left and right. Flippers? Hang em by the wall from their gonads, cuz they are the scum of the earth right next to lawyers and kiddie touchers, some of us are soo quick to pass judgement on people. Water heater replacement sure ill recommend a plumber, gas line definietly, but fixing a drippy facuet, changing a w/c why the hell not. Lets lighten up at least curb some of the attitude we exhibit toward these people because some of the posts are downright rude and unprofessional! I WOULD NEVER talk to a customer the way some of us speak to someone on the "anonymous" internet. If someone was recommended say Service Guy for a job, ok the homeowner does a search for "Carl's Plumbing," (names and dates have been changed to protect the innocent) finds a post on the forum of him bashing a DIYer, how do you think that is for a fledgling businessman?
    Last edited by wrench spinner; 09-03-2008, 08:47 AM.

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    • #32
      Re: So where do we draw the line

      Originally posted by wrench spinner View Post
      personally i think the line "you can afford a house you can afford a plumber" is bs and condescending. We dont know anyones financial situations and it is really none of our business. How do you know what their house is like, maybe their house is bare bones because they lost there job and sold everything they had but the house to put food on the table. Today's economy has a very unstable job market. People are loosing jobs and homes left and right. Flippers? Hang em by the wall from their gonads, cuz they are the scum of the earth right next to lawyers and kiddie touchers, some of us are soo quick to pass judgement on people. Water heater replacement sure ill recommend a plumber, gas line definietly, but fixing a drippy facuet, changing a w/c why the hell not. Lets lighten up at least curb some of the attitude we exhibit toward these people because some of the posts are downright rude and unprofessional! I WOULD NEVER talk to a customer the way some of us speak to someone on the "anonymous" internet. If someone was recommended say Service Guy for a job, ok the homeowner does a search for "Carl's Plumbing," (names and dates have been changed to protect the innocent) finds a post on the forum of him bashing a DIYer, how do you think that is for a fledgling businessman?
      I know for a fact this reflects the opinion of those who put this forum into place.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: So where do we draw the line

        Originally posted by Plumbcrazy View Post
        Mark, - when we go to a supply house looking for a stem - we buy it from them. We don't use them to identify it, sneak back to the office, look it up online and buy from a cheaper supplier. If I ask a business question (advertising), I am willing to give back and say what has worked for us. Its about the give and take.

        Plumbing simple - YES - if you know what you are doing. Installing a faucet easy? Tell that to our customer who tried to install his own and a supply let loose while he was at work. Flooded his first floor. Apparently not so easy and very costly for him.
        Many people who have come here for advice are still here a year or so later offering advice on their expertise. When you ask for advice on flat-rate software you are asking it of those who put their butts on the line and some times years of trial and error to find the right model. That all comes at a cost to them yet you are asking for them to give it to you for free. Maybe it is just me but I don't see the difference between the two.

        Mark
        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: So where do we draw the line

          Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
          Many people who have come here for advice are still here a year or so later offering advice on their expertise. When you ask for advice on flat-rate software you are asking it of those who put their butts on the line and some times years of trial and error to find the right model. That all comes at a cost to them yet you are asking for them to give it to you for free. Maybe it is just me but I don't see the difference between the two.

          Mark
          Thats on the same line as asking a fellow pro which threading machine is best.

          Compared to a homeowners calling me to ask how to pipe his own bath addition, there's a difference.

          The anonymous nature of the internet has a strange effect on people, I find myself wondering how many would answer the same questions if the homeowner were just calling them on their own phone as regularly as they ask here.

          Is there a propensity to try to impress eachother in the open?

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          • #35
            Re: So where do we draw the line

            If I seem condescending and rude, then I apologize. But some of these people are also rude. e.g.: "Hi, my cast-iron drains all need to be replaced, but I want to try and do it myself because I can't afford to pay a plumber, cuz they're all ripoffs." If they own a house, thats an ASSET. It can be SOLD if they can't afford it. I have had this situation in real life...people whining about money for repairs, meanwhile they live in a $250,000 house that is paid off.
            I don't mind people changing faucets, toilets, whatever. But attempting difficult and dangerous jobs that are beyond their ability out of pure cheapness is where I draw the line.
            Water Heater Reviews & Water Heater Information

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            • #36
              Re: So where do we draw the line

              Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
              Thats on the same line as asking a fellow pro which threading machine is best.

              Compared to a homeowners calling me to ask how to pipe his own bath addition, there's a difference.

              The anonymous nature of the internet has a strange effect on people, I find myself wondering how many would answer the same questions if the homeowner were just calling them on their own phone as regularly as they ask here.

              Is there a propensity to try to impress eachother in the open?
              I think we are in two different Worlds and may be talking about two different things. I am simply pointing out when you ask for advice you are asking someone who has spent time and money arriving at an opinion to opine on what they have learned. It doesn't matter what the subject is you are still asking for free advice.

              I hosted a radio talk show for years and many of those who called in for advice were my customers which meant I was cutting myself out of work. I let them know when they were over their heads and I gave them advice on the jobs I considered a nuisance call anyways. The advice I gave paid me back ten-fold in new work and customers. We may never agree on this but I feel to refuse to help a young family who are trying to feed their kids by advising them to keep a closet auger in the kids bath is just plain mean.

              Mark
              "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

              I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: So where do we draw the line

                I'll just stand by my point, do any of the members here who answer DIY questions offer free advice to complete strangers when they call on their own business phone?

                Food for thought.

                I find it interesting that many of the same members who might complain about DIY, customers lowballing on price or total strangers calling to pick their brains, will still stand by the right to offer free advice online.

                One member made an arghument the he does offer his customers help over the phone when practical, so do I... for regular customers.

                I'd go out of business doing that with total strangers.

                Why is it acceptable online?

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                • #38
                  Re: So where do we draw the line

                  Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                  I think we are in two different Worlds and may be talking about two different things. I am simply pointing out when you ask for advice you are asking someone who has spent time and money arriving at an opinion to opine on what they have learned. It doesn't matter what the subject is you are still asking for free advice.

                  I hosted a radio talk show for years and many of those who called in for advice were my customers which meant I was cutting myself out of work. I let them know when they were over their heads and I gave them advice on the jobs I considered a nuisance call anyways. The advice I gave paid me back ten-fold in new work and customers. We may never agree on this but I feel to refuse to help a young family who are trying to feed their kids by advising them to keep a closet auger in the kids bath is just plain mean.

                  Mark
                  We probably never will, but one thing I've come to respect about you is that never means we have to get personal.
                  I think to a degree you may understand my metaphor of answering the same questions over the phone.

                  As for the family with kids scenario, I almost offered some help to the gal with 5 kids...couldn't debate that one.

                  But the fact remains that anyone can go online and misrepresent themselves to obtain free info to do work at a profit that they shouldn't be doing.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: So where do we draw the line

                    Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                    I'll just stand by my point, do any of the members here who answer DIY questions offer free advice to complete strangers when they call on their own business phone?

                    Food for thought.

                    I find it interesting that many of the same members who might complain about DIY, customers lowballing on price or total strangers calling to pick their brains, will still stand by the right to offer free advice online.

                    One member made an arghument the he does offer his customers help over the phone when practical, so do I... for regular customers.

                    I'd go out of business doing that with total strangers.

                    Why is it acceptable online?
                    Short answer "yes all of the time". I've posted before those are the customers I don't want as customers. If the customer comes across with that attitude to begin with what makes you think if you convince them to let you do the work you won't have problems when you're at the job? I've always felt wasting your time on a customer like that was keeping you from working for a real customer. In addition, just how loyal do you believe a customer like that would be in the long run?

                    Mark
                    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: So where do we draw the line

                      Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                      Short answer "yes all of the time". I've posted before those are the customers I don't want as customers. If the customer comes across with that attitude to begin with what makes you think if you convince them to let you do the work you won't have problems when you're at the job? I've always felt wasting your time on a customer like that was keeping you from working for a real customer. In addition, just how loyal do you believe a customer like that would be in the long run?

                      Mark


                      And I KNOW you knew I wouldn't have a comeback to that one.
                      True, very true.

                      Just don't expect me to become a DIY guru though....

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: So where do we draw the line

                        Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                        We probably never will, but one thing I've come to respect about you is that never means we have to get personal.
                        I think to a degree you may understand my metaphor of answering the same questions over the phone.

                        As for the family with kids scenario, I almost offered some help to the gal with 5 kids...couldn't debate that one.

                        But the fact remains that anyone can go online and misrepresent themselves to obtain free info to do work at a profit that they shouldn't be doing.
                        Mark,

                        I respect the heck out of you and I know where you are coming from. I also know you are new to business and every job counts. You need to do what is right for you but at the same time respect what is right for you is not always right for everyone else.

                        Mark
                        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: So where do we draw the line

                          Originally posted by DuckButter View Post


                          And I KNOW you knew I wouldn't have a comeback to that one.
                          True, very true.

                          Just don't expect me to become a DIY guru though....


                          There is a reason I use to refer those call to my competitors. The funny part is they would call to thank me for the referral then often relate the headache the job ended up being.

                          Mark
                          "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                          I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: So where do we draw the line

                            http://forum.freeadvice.com/

                            http://www.medhelp.org/forums/list

                            http://www.automotiveforums.com/

                            http://www.accounting-and-bookkeepin...orum/index.php

                            APPARENTLY PLUMBER AREN'T THE ONLY ONE PLAGUED BY DO IT YOURSELF FORUMS!

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                            • #44
                              Re: So where do we draw the line

                              Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                              I'll just stand by my point, do any of the members here who answer DIY questions offer free advice to complete strangers when they call on their own business phone?

                              yes i do. the "complete strangers'' are not complete strangers as someone has recommended them to me. the first question i ask is where they found me from.

                              Food for thought.

                              I find it interesting that many of the same members who might complain about DIY, customers lowballing on price or total strangers calling to pick their brains, will still stand by the right to offer free advice online.

                              One member made an arghument the he does offer his customers help over the phone when practical, so do I... for regular customers.

                              i always offer the customer/ stranger a chance to fix it themselves on the simple do it yourself stuff. stopped up toilet, re-lite a water heater, plugged sink, toilet flapper. if they call asking for help on how to do it, i'll give them time now or when i get home. i know that if they fix it, it saves them some money and they are thankful that i helped. they also will still be calling me in the future.
                              when i recommend another company, i don't look for any compensation. what goes around, comes around.

                              I'd go out of business doing that with total strangers.

                              i rather doubt less than 5% of my incoming calls are for free do it yourself advise. i get more calls for jobs i'm not interested in.

                              Why is it acceptable online?
                              it's acceptable because we come here on our own accord. we don't get paid and we are welcome to check out anytime.
                              i honestly believe that more has been learned by other plumbers by sharing info/ help with both each other and with homeowners. part of the learning process is being presented with limited info and then asking the proper questions. the majority of the people looking for help are not looking for anything more than something basic.

                              rick.
                              phoebe it is

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                              • #45
                                Re: So where do we draw the line

                                Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                                I'll just stand by my point, do any of the members here who answer DIY questions offer free advice to complete strangers when they call on their own business phone?
                                I do. 100% of the time. And I have had the same results as the other Mark. I have been paid back what seems like ten fold with kind words and most importantly referrals. In fact, more often than not, a thorough explaination to the customer of what they are really getting into results in them having me come out anyway.

                                I've been around guys at the supply house and other places who are stand-off'ish when a customer calls on their cell phone. I am floored that these guys can run their business that way. I really think they get to a point to where they start to answer every call like its a nuisance. Its like the customer has to know exactly how to phrase their question, so as not to piss him off.

                                JMO

                                Andy

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