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  • #61
    Re: So where do we draw the line

    Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
    That's an excellent point I haven't thought of either. I have never Googled myself (no jokes please ) so it never occurred to me about my thoughts & opinions being available to the WORLD. Hope I don't embarrass myself.

    J.C.
    Alright who went out and bought JC an avatar?!?! we all know he didn't go buy one himself!!!

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    • #62
      Re: So where do we draw the line

      Getting back to plumberjr's post, I feel that if a question is asked in the "ASK THE PLUMBING EXPERTS" forum that they should be answered with some sort of response other than "CALL a PLUMBER" If that is the case you might as well call this forum a over glorified plumbers chat room! It is called "ask the plumbing expert" because that is what part of the forum is all about. If they post it under "Professional Plumbing Discussion" Then maybe they should be told to post their question in another part of the forum?
      When I stumbled across this forum I thought WOW this is a great site, a bunch of plumbers that are here to help out other plumbers and people that have plumbing issues and ask nothing in return. Now, I'm not so sure that is what this site is for anymore. It seems that a lot of the newer guys coming into this forum and some of the older ones as well are not here to help people with their problems. There are certain things that I also feel should be done by a professional but then I remember, In the State of Ohio any Homeowner can pull a Plumbing permit as long as they they live in the residence that the permit is pulled for. I guess the State finds them qualified to do plumbing work.
      As for the issue of talking someone through cleaning a drain or sewer that is not licensed, I'm sure that quite a few Drain Cleaners that are not Licensed as I never heard of a Drain Cleaning License? but I'm sure they are more than qualified to do the job. I know of Roofers and Heating guys along with Electricians that clean drains on the side and I know of Plumbers that wire up dishwashers, disposers and water heaters without being licensed in Electrical.
      Kiss A$$es????, I don't know what to say about that comment but if trying to give the best advice one can give is kissing a$$ then I guess we are all guilty of that. I think what I'm trying to say is LIGHTEN UP if you want to help out on this forum and give someone helpful advice then go ahead and give your 2 cents, If not then don't, it's that simple. I just get tired of reading post where people are told to Call a Plumber.
      ________
      AROMED VAPORIZERS
      Last edited by TOPDAWG; 02-24-2011, 05:16 PM.
      Mike

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      • #63
        Re: So where do we draw the line

        Originally posted by wrench spinner View Post
        Alright who went out and bought JC an avatar?!?! we all know he didn't go buy one himself!!!
        Don't worry, they're free
        I love my plumber

        "My Hero"

        Welcome, Phoebe Jacqueline!

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        • #64
          Re: So where do we draw the line

          Originally posted by wrench spinner View Post
          Alright who went out and bought JC an avatar?!?! we all know he didn't go buy one himself!!!
          It's leased with an option to buy. I know alot of you thought I was a redheaded chinese man.

          I think I'm gonna' have to change it back though. The PM box is buzzing from your wives/girlfriends.

          J.C.

          Comment


          • #65
            Re: So where do we draw the line

            Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
            That's an excellent point I haven't thought of either. I have never Googled myself (no jokes please ) so it never occurred to me about my thoughts & opinions being available to the WORLD. Hope I don't embarrass myself.

            J.C.
            Little too late for that, eh?


            Originally posted by wrench spinner View Post
            Alright who went out and bought JC an avatar?!?! we all know he didn't go buy one himself!!!
            Nice shirt JC


            I've been a member here maybe a year and a half. This subject has come up a few times in the past but I don't remember it ever being this heated.

            Some of you guys really have a stick up your butt about DIYers and maybe for good reason. I never thought this group of plumbers could become such primadannas. I might feel different if DIYers were somehow hurting my business. They arn't, if anything they make it more lucrative for me.

            The plumbing industry today isn't what it was 5 years ago, 10 years ago, or 25 years ago when I first started. It changes all the time. It's more dynamic now than ever. Big box stores, the internet, cable TV have all played a part in this morph. If you want to be the 'Soup Nazi' and not help the DIYers that's all good. Keep in mind, this industry isn't done changing. Don't get left behind because you couldn't adapt to the new environment.

            p.s. I won't divulge Ricks Ebay name but he has a 100% feedback rating

            ZERO feedback as a seller

            Comment


            • #66
              Re: So where do we draw the line

              Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
              It's leased with an option to buy. I know alot of you thought I was a redheaded chinese man.

              I think I'm gonna' have to change it back though. The PM box is buzzing from your wives/girlfriends.

              J.C.
              Yeah, because their so courious about, what the color of that shirt is
              INSIGHT PIPE is now Maine Drain Serving most of ME with no charge for travel! 207-431-6232 is nolonger a working # our NEW # is 207-355-1476
              Sewer main snaking (roto rooting). Sink clogs. Sewer backup. Pipe inspection/locating. No Dig trenchless repair. Root clog removal.We are NOT to replace your local Plumber, as we do not do plumbing. WE ARE YOUR DRAIN CLEANING EXPERTS!!! www.sewermaine.com waterville winslow bangor augusta skowhegan fairfield pittsfield oakland

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              • #67
                Re: So where do we draw the line

                Don't like my shirt PC?

                It's what I work in everyday.

                J.C.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Re: So where do we draw the line

                  Originally posted by Plumbcrazy View Post
                  Herk - I have to disagree about your DIY'ers comment. They are taking tremendous business away from the service plumbers. All three of our supply houses are hurting, but anyday day of the week you see water heaters, toilets, faucets etc. going right out the door of the big box stores. Consumers buy name brand 'junk.' The Delta at Lowes is nothing like the Delta you buy from a supply house. The consumer loses in the long run. Try to find parts for a Pegasus or Glacier Bay faucet.

                  No one here appears to be stingy. We all feel for the less fortunate. Our company gives back a lot to those in need in our own community.

                  With the internet, it's a little different. You have no idea who you are giving info. to. Perhaps the 'hack' contractor or the maintenance man down the street from your shop? So maybe the advice you are giving doesn't hurt your business, BUT, just maybe it is hurting the struggling honest plumber down the street. Where is our loyalty and charity to them?

                  When we get a service call, we give information based on the tone of the caller. In person, by the attitude of the recipient. You have a lot more facts before doling "free" advice.

                  The less fortunate arguement - do they live in a vacuum? There are churches, family, neighbors, work associates, community organizations etc. IMO - most are just cheap and don't want to pay a professional.

                  When wanting to share plumbing information / knowledge / charity - why not help a local apprentice? Why not help someone in your own community that you can see?
                  I think you're preaching to the choir when it comes to the big box stores selling fixtures and fittings. Yes, people get fooled into thinking they get something for WAY cheaper than their plumber will sell it to them. They have no idea that it's not apples to oranges. I had a guy at a small school the other day ask how much the toilets he wanted replaced would be (3 of them that only needed flappers and fill valves). He told me flat out he expected $60 on sale at Menards was what was expected. I pretty much walked away. If he wants to go buy them and have me install them, I guess OK but there will be no warranty with it. Some people don't care, and it only takes one service call and the savings they got are gone.

                  I see that as a problem for the wholesalers. If they want to compete with, and have us compete with, these stores, than they need to weed out what they can't compete with (cheap fixtures) and stick to the quality stuff. We get stuck in the middle because we make profit off the sale of these fixtures as well, it's part of our business, retail. But it's also a problem that is BEYOND OUR CONTROL. If you can afford to give up every customer that wants to supply their own fixtures (as my last employer did) than more power to you. Personallly, in Michigan anyway, the competition is too tough to give up on the DIYer. There will ALWAYS be DIYer's. I'm a DIYer. I'm liscensed as a master plumber, boiler installer and mechanical, but I pretty much do whatever else I can do for myself too. That's part of what made America great I think, is self reliance. To anyone who wants to say, "That's my work and only I can do it," I say you.

                  That said, I won't talk anyone through an adjustment of their gas valve w/o an analyser. STUPID. I will say, "Call someone who knows what they're doing". I Will give someone help identifying a stem from an old faucet. You can get that at any good hardware store. If someone is making a living rebuilding faucets (which I did for a couple years actually in my younger years) it's not cutting into that. They're not working for the DIY crowd. Someone right now is asking about how to remove a CI boiler. I might help talk them through the removal, but forget about the install. It better be a professional. I often quote boiler replacements with a savings for the homeowner doing some of their own removal. Big deal, as long as there is no asbestos. I always warn about that.

                  Like Herk, I would not have survived many of my years if I could not do things for myself. I have no qualms about helping someone who is willing to get their hands a little dirty, as long as they are not endangering the general public with what they're doing.

                  Loved the Mythbusters video. Unfortunately, I've seen the aftermath of just such an event involving boilers, where the landlord was too cheap to have checkups now and then. I have no sympathy for cheapness. And I don't really desire to work for cheap people anymore anyway.

                  Welcome to the forum Cincy plumber.
                  sigpic3:00, I mean 5:00, and work is done. Time to crack a cold one.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: So where do we draw the line

                    Awhawww, PC beat me....Not fair
                    INSIGHT PIPE is now Maine Drain Serving most of ME with no charge for travel! 207-431-6232 is nolonger a working # our NEW # is 207-355-1476
                    Sewer main snaking (roto rooting). Sink clogs. Sewer backup. Pipe inspection/locating. No Dig trenchless repair. Root clog removal.We are NOT to replace your local Plumber, as we do not do plumbing. WE ARE YOUR DRAIN CLEANING EXPERTS!!! www.sewermaine.com waterville winslow bangor augusta skowhegan fairfield pittsfield oakland

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: So where do we draw the line

                      2 in a row!

                      Guess I gotta' get rid of my orange shirts that don't show NC red mud.

                      J.C.
                      Last edited by BobsPlumbing; 09-03-2008, 06:31 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Re: So where do we draw the line

                        Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                        BHD, I'll agree.
                        I tend to go to the extreme because it seems like it offsets some of the rediculous extents to which advice is given.

                        Having watched whole additions be advised, even a CO vent installation being encouraged to an individual in my state where it's absolutely illegal AND dangerous, I finally realised a simple warning wasn't doing anything.

                        There was a thread earlier this year where a fella was being coached through working on his boiler, he finally took it upon himself to modify the gas valve without a combustion analyzer... that could be suicide.

                        Simple warnings have yielded little result, seems like tenacity and a willingness to look like the bad guy are the only way to arouse awareness.
                        I definately understand your point Duck. I tend to forget that in other parts of the country homeowners cant do their own work. Dont be afraid to slap me around if I ever offer this kind of advice to someone in your state. I might have been part of one of the threads you are talking about. Send me a link to the threads you are talking about if you get time so I can see my mistakes.

                        Andy

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                        • #72
                          Re: So where do we draw the line

                          Where do I draw the line?

                          When it comes to boilers, anything gas, and some drain cleaning.

                          I draw the line with a fill valve if your a house flipper.
                          Proud To Be Union!!

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Re: So where do we draw the line

                            In Illinois, its legal for the homeowner to do their own work. I get lots of questions, asked for estimates-show up, customer has parts laid out etc.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Re: So where do we draw the line

                              When I read these posts it's almost like we're being pimped into giving free advice to homeowners or your a premadonna, rude, mean ect.

                              The fact is, "most" of the DIY can't stand the site of a plumber or paying one. They only want free advice to avoid paying a plumber. They don't value your service, period.

                              They will go through extraordinary lengths to avoid paying a plumber. Code or not, right or wrong, they will not pay a plumber. It's a mission.

                              People are selfish. Not really intentionally, but naturally. This is a hard lesson to learn.

                              Members wonder why very few DIY members come back and post results. That is because they don't care about you.

                              In a sense, you are a good will hooker. They get the advice they want. You feel good because you got to bestow your great knowledge. They only care about getting the goods without paying or a kiss.

                              It really doesn't bother me when other members jump over hoops to help out DIY members. You won't see me call them out. Most of the time I find it comical.

                              I'm not trying to come off as the bad guy here. This is just my opinion and not the gospel.


                              Last edited by Tyman; 09-03-2008, 08:03 PM.
                              Anyone can tear a man down, few can build one up.

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                              • #75
                                Re: So where do we draw the line

                                Is that why I always feel 'dirty' inside?

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