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  • #31
    Re: Mom's son says my price was "asinine."

    I like kohler's wellworth toilet. I agree the cimarron doesn't have a good bowl wash, though they seem not to have clogging problems.

    I hate repairing any faucet or shower valve... It's always a pita. I mostly just won't do it anymore... call someone who likes that work, I don't do it, I do drains.

    I have mixed feelings about kohler's tub drains, the ones with the funky linkage and the springy thingy to actuate it. They work nicely, and are very adjustable, but the design is such that anyone can pull the stopper out, then either lose bits of it (which are difficult to get, expensive, and a long time coming from kohler) or put it back in wrong and step on it to force it back in and get it wedged in the spring.
    This is my reminder to myself that no good will ever come from discussing politics or religion with anyone, ever.

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    • #32
      Re: Mom's son says my price was "asinine."

      Hey you happen to know a fellow by the name of Septic Tank Yank?


      John Aldrich is his name, well known for his superior knowledge of private sewage disposal systems? I haven't seen him on any forum boards in a long time, used to send chain emails.

      He lives in your area.
      Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

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      • #33
        Re: Mom's son says my price was "asinine."

        Gotta get off the fence here I guess. I don't hate all Kohler products. Toilets have been an issue for a few years now as Kohler continually changes and updates things that didn't need changing. That said I like the Wellworth, especially in the 18" tall model. We sell a load of them and have very very few problems. They are solid and have a good flush action. The cimmerion, I'm a bit less impressed with but other than needing a couple flushes to scrub the bowl down they seem to flush ok. As for the rest of the toiler line I have mixed feelings. Some are good, some not. You have to admit though that if your customer is looking for something real fancy Kohler has the product for them. I like their cast iron lavs and Kitchen sinks, very high marks for quality and finish. I like their fiberglass also. same thing, very nice quality and finish. Faucets are a crap shoot, but again if your customer wants the truley fancy or bizzare, kohler probably has it.

        The Best Toilet in the World is the TOTO Drake. It will flush a full grown cat. (yes it will, I seen it myself, or rather fished it out of the main line)
        sigpic

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        • #34
          Re: Mom's son says my price was "asinine."

          Welcome Pete, I will have to agree that Kohler has some good products and some that are not up to par, but then again so do all the other manufactures of plumbing products. It seems that no matter what toilet we sell to someone we should also sell them a cleaning brush as 1.6 gal is just not enough water to scrub the bowl clean and almost always needs a second flush. I think TOTO makes a good toilet but try getting parts for one!!! it took over 12 weeks to get a flapper for one and even then our salesman got one from another plumber in the area, So do We not sell a TOTO toilet anymore??? As for faucets I have rebuilt just as many Delta, Moen, Chicago, Central Brass and others as I have Kohler and getting parts can be a challenge for any of them at times. In our area we are strong MOEN people and say Delta sucks while 50 miles south of us the say MOEN sucks and Delta is great. Location is key to every product debate, if you see a sales rep from one company and not the other the one you see is normally the one you would choose to install as your rep will be able to get you the parts needed quickly.
          ________
          YAMAHA DT200
          Last edited by TOPDAWG; 02-24-2011, 06:16 PM.
          Mike

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          • #35
            Re: Mom's son says my price was "asinine."

            I agree with you for the most part TopDawg. It seems if you have a good rep. and the availability of parts it is less of hassle to sell/install it.

            I like Kohler's design. I just think they have 50 project engineers and no manager so each engineer does their own thing.

            My rep. told me that Kohler changed their part numbers again so now he has to cross reference every part number I give him.
            Anyone can tear a man down, few can build one up.

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            • #36
              Re: Mom's son says my price was "asinine."

              While things have steered somewhat toward toilets, just wanted to comment. I've installed various models of Kohler, Briggs, American Standard, Gerber, Crane, Toto, Mansfield, ProFlo, and some others I'm sure I've forgot.

              The tank-type-gravity one that's worked the best based on removal of waste, price, bowl cleaning, parts availability, design, and overall simplicity has been the Kohler Wellworth. Hope they don't screw it up.

              The Mansfield 135 combination works about as well.

              I don't get the raves about Toto. They've worked fine but no better than the Wellworth.

              I'm not a fan of the Class 3/5 "Whoopie Cushion" flapper. (What I've knicknamed it) Or any design that dumps the 1.6 gpf quickly.

              And if you want to get real nervous go install some of the American Standards where it feels like you have to put 200lbs. of torque on the bolts to get the tank to stop rocking.

              J.C.

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              • #37
                Re: Mom's son says my price was "asinine."

                Originally posted by Tyman View Post
                My rep. told me that Kohler changed their part numbers again so now he has to cross reference every part number I give him.
                I heard this too. We already have to solve cryptic riddles and work our way through the labrynth of mazes just to find a part number that turns out to be discontinued.

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                • #38
                  Re: Mom's son says my price was "asinine."

                  Funny how a post about the price given to install two toilets leads to a discussion how bad a certain product line is.
                  If they said your price was too high they will more than likely price shop the job and eventually get a friend to try and fix the problem causing more problems and then end up calling you when the problem is worse than it was in the first place.
                  Your pricing did seem fair to me so I wouldnt put to much stock into what you are charging and try to revamp your pricing.
                  What I usually do is give the homeowner a price that I will not exceed . Figure in what may have to be replaced ( such as closet flanges ect...).Figure in my labor rate and service call adding about a 1/2 hour to an hour to the job just in case something unexpected comes up. Then tell them I will do the job time and material not to exceed the agreed to price explaining all the things that could possibly go wrong with the job.
                  Most of the time I end up well under the agreed to price saving the homeowner money and they are happy. On rare occasions however I end up spending a little more time on the job than expected and take a little hit on the labor I put into the job. Charging them the agreed to price, showing them that the job to a little more time than expected and I did not charging them for the extra hour I spent doing their job and they are happy. Sometimes they offer to pay me for the extra time I spent doing the job and I refuse to take the payment over the price I originally gave to them.
                  Either way the customer ended up pleased with the price on the job and the Quallity of the work since I do not do any job halfassed with my reputation on the line. Seems they end up a customer of mine for life with endless referalls and the never question pricing on the jobs they ask me to do after that for them. Sometimes I feel they call me for even the most trivial of things after that as they appreciate being treated fairly.
                  Most of our business is word of mouth with very little advertising and we never seem to be lacking for work.

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                  • #39
                    Re: Mom's son says my price was "asinine."

                    N.I.P. ,Glad She figured things out.

                    She probably knew Her little Boy would turn it into a goat F#%K. But Moms are Moms!
                    I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Mom's son says my price was "asinine."

                      Give us a update NIP.

                      I'm interested in how you were received after your asinine price.
                      Anyone can tear a man down, few can build one up.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Mom's son says my price was "asinine."

                        I have to call her tonight to set up an appointment. She made the mistake of shopping online, and saw how many styles and prices there are and is kind of confused.
                        I told her that is why I gave her a price for the toilet, so she would not have to shop, price, and get confused. Well see.

                        This was a referral of a referral, I am patient.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Mom's son says my price was "asinine."

                          Originally posted by ridgidpipe View Post
                          Funny how a post about the price given to install two toilets leads to a discussion how bad a certain product line is.
                          If they said your price was too high they will more than likely price shop the job and eventually get a friend to try and fix the problem causing more problems and then end up calling you when the problem is worse than it was in the first place.
                          Your pricing did seem fair to me so I wouldnt put to much stock into what you are charging and try to revamp your pricing.
                          What I usually do is give the homeowner a price that I will not exceed . Figure in what may have to be replaced ( such as closet flanges ect...).Figure in my labor rate and service call adding about a 1/2 hour to an hour to the job just in case something unexpected comes up. Then tell them I will do the job time and material not to exceed the agreed to price explaining all the things that could possibly go wrong with the job.
                          Most of the time I end up well under the agreed to price saving the homeowner money and they are happy. On rare occasions however I end up spending a little more time on the job than expected and take a little hit on the labor I put into the job. Charging them the agreed to price, showing them that the job to a little more time than expected and I did not charging them for the extra hour I spent doing their job and they are happy. Sometimes they offer to pay me for the extra time I spent doing the job and I refuse to take the payment over the price I originally gave to them.
                          Either way the customer ended up pleased with the price on the job and the Quallity of the work since I do not do any job halfassed with my reputation on the line. Seems they end up a customer of mine for life with endless referalls and the never question pricing on the jobs they ask me to do after that for them. Sometimes I feel they call me for even the most trivial of things after that as they appreciate being treated fairly.
                          Most of our business is word of mouth with very little advertising and we never seem to be lacking for work.

                          I do a "not to exceed' as well. Does give the homeowner a limit/cap. They are happy when you show up under the time too.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Mom's son says my price was "asinine."

                            Toilets installed. Mansfield Summit 3. Pretty user friendly. I am used to tightening a tank to bowl where the tank actually sits on the bowl. I could not recall if the Mansfields did this or not. Well they dont. Nice and snug is about all. They do flush like the devil though.

                            Will go back tomorrow for another project and to replace a braided PVC flexi with a steel braided...ran out of the others.

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