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DIY'er - To give or not to give?

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  • #16
    Re: DIY'er - To give or not to give?

    Plumbcrazy, I did not mean I was going to refer them to the website, I meant I was going to refer them to a plumber from here to do their work and get paid for it.

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    • #17
      Re: DIY'er - To give or not to give?

      Originally posted by Plumbcrazy View Post
      Don't refer them here like you are doing us a favor. Refer them to their local plumber. Check the plumbing companies BBB rating, ask friends/neighbors for an honest plumber.

      This proves my point - answer one DIY'er and it attracts 5 more.

      Again plumbers - all your good will and advice here - How many have actually received a job as a direct result of you participating in this forum?
      What???
      I certainly hope that not one person thinks that helping others on the internet is going to benefit them in a FINANCIAL way.

      Is money why people invest in a forum like this?
      Now I quess I'm the idiot.
      What's the matter with me.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: DIY'er - To give or not to give?

        Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
        What???
        I certainly hope that not one person thinks that helping others on the internet is going to benefit them in a FINANCIAL way.

        Is money why people invest in a forum like this?
        Now I quess I'm the idiot.
        What's the matter with me.
        Caryn suggested by helping someone here that they might come back when they really needed a plumber and that the good given may turn into business for another plumber here. Of course it doesn't.

        1. Helping others here only benefits the DIY'ers in a FINANCIAL way.
        2. Giving help here benefits the giver in an EMOTIONAL way.
        &
        3. Giving help here hurts small business owners in a FINANCIAL way.

        No arguments on point #3. Many small business owners have backed up that DIY'ers have cut into a businesses financially.

        BTW - Love the name. Lots of pride in dirty hands.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: DIY'er - To give or not to give?

          Originally posted by Plumbcrazy View Post

          Again plumbers - all your good will and advice here - How many have actually received a job as a direct result of you participating in this forum?
          i have never accepted any offers for work from this forum

          but i have worked for a handful of people that actually know me from this forum.

          i went to do a propress job at a condo building and the hoa president was very knowledgeable in the propress concept.

          while talking to him, he called me "you're plumber rick" true story

          what's the chance of actually working for a subcontractor for ridgid

          he's actually someone that we all know, but just don't know him

          it was coincidental, but true. he doesn't visit the forum, but i knew him and he knows me now because of this forum.

          or how about some of the photos that i post of actual jobs. i have a real good following with the kids in the neighborhood and they all come out to help. some are featured here alongside of me working.

          there is no hidden tricks in building your business. i'm not the cheapest and by no means the most expensive.

          what i am is the most honest and caring plumber they have ever had. i get referred by other companies to cover for them. i have never given these people my card. i ask them to call the original company the next time they need service. what goes around, comes around.
          sure i could steal every new referral from them, but why? there are plenty of customers out there for everyone. and i am very selective of who i work for.

          rick.
          phoebe it is

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: DIY'er - To give or not to give?

            When Ridgid is sued by a homeowner that went too far the lawyers will be asking:

            Ridgid, you have an Expert Plumbers Forum. Are they employed by you? (My guess is no).

            Ridgid, you advertise an Expert Plumbers Forum to dispense advice. What have you done to insure that they are really plumbers or experts in the field. (My guess - NOTHING)

            Ridgid, you have had plumbers posting for months about doling out free advice where a homeowner could get seriously hurt. You ignored this why?

            Ridgid - How are you not responsible for Homeowner Mr. Jones getting blown up? Your site, your Forums.

            Sorry Ridgid - you have responsibility with what you allow to be done here. Ignorance will be no excuse.

            Plumbers - A good lawsuit, with a good lawyer - you will be named too!

            They may not win, but do you want to pay an attorney to defend you. It would bankrupt you.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: DIY'er - To give or not to give?

              Originally posted by Plumbcrazy View Post
              Caryn suggested by helping someone here that they might come back when they really needed a plumber and that the good given may turn into business for another plumber here. Of course it doesn't.

              1. Helping others here only benefits the DIY'ers in a FINANCIAL way.
              2. Giving help here benefits the giver in an EMOTIONAL way.
              &
              3. Giving help here hurts small business owners in a FINANCIAL way.

              No arguments on point #3. Many small business owners have backed up that DIY'ers have cut into a businesses financially.

              BTW - Love the name. Lots of pride in dirty hands.
              Not as much as many a better man/woman here.
              Last edited by drtyhands; 09-07-2008, 05:33 PM.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: DIY'er - To give or not to give?

                For me this discussion is not so much about business as it is about our responsibility to the plumbing profession. There was a time not all that long ago when Plumbers were held to high standards of workmanship as well as integrity. Through the years, with the advent of big box stores and professional plumbing associations more interested in making a buck than protecting the health of the nation, the profession has and will continue to suffer. We no longer are united in the overall cause of health and safety. We care more about the almighty dollar. And that's ok to a point, we all need to eat. But there must be a balance. Never forget gentlemen that plumbing is not and has never been a "trade". It is a profession. More than 2000 years old. And I'll be damned if I will see it degraded and belittled by the hoards of diy'ers and remodeling contractors, all hell bent on saving a buck at the expense of not only our profession, but the health of our nation. The time to make a stand is now.


                sigpic

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                • #23
                  Re: DIY'er - To give or not to give?

                  Originally posted by Plumbcrazy View Post
                  Don't refer them here like you are doing us a favor. Refer them to their local plumber. Check the plumbing companies BBB rating, ask friends/neighbors for an honest plumber.

                  This proves my point - answer one DIY'er and it attracts 5 more.

                  Again plumbers - all your good will and advice here - How many have actually received a job as a direct result of you participating in this forum?
                  I have. Nothing big but ist not the size that matters as opposed to principal

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: DIY'er - To give or not to give?

                    Originally posted by Plumbcrazy View Post

                    Observation of those who give advice
                    !. Union contract plumbers where wages and benefits are much better.
                    2. Commercial plumbers
                    3. Those who are older and getting close to retiring. (most of you don't realize what us small companies compete with on a daily basis).
                    4. Employees - who have no idea what it cost a business to operate
                    Wow I hope you are not referring to me as the old guy. Regardless of what Adam has told you I am 55-years old and if I can get away with it I will work another 30-years. Many of those who are doing what I am doing don't even start until their late 60s. I got lucky and started in my 30s. As for not realizing what you are going through I don't see how it is any different today than it was 30-years ago. Back then people still bought and installed their own stuff and many states did not even have contractor boards or building departments.

                    Originally posted by Plumbcrazy View Post

                    Dangers of giving advice via internet
                    1. Homeowner can get hurt physically as well as financially.
                    2. You may be educating the hack who plans to compete with his local plumber.
                    3. You are taking business away from small companies
                    4. You devalue the profession by insinuating an average Joe can do plumbing. If the average Joe can do most of it, than all of you plumbers are way overpaid! Plumbing wages in the contracting sector were going up until the influx of illegal labor.
                    5. The DIY'er who learns to do some plumbing with inside do's/don'ts starts to think - Hey, I can do this for a living. The local plumber charges $105.00 to install a faucet. I'll do it for $50.00, make a bundle, and will have all the business I want. At that price, people will be referring me to everyone.
                    DIY is nothing new and is probably less today than it was 30-years ago. Back then they read Time-Life, Sunset, Popular Mechanics or other DIY magazines. Home Depot is not new either as this is their 30th anniversary, Before Home Depot we had Builders Emporium and Lumber City. Both of those were around forever and they were strictly DIY centers.

                    Originally posted by Plumbcrazy View Post

                    Honest plumbing companies do not make a lot of money relative to what they are risking. We offer 24/7 emergency service - that has to be worth more than the average $40,000.00 / year that a plumber earns.

                    All we are asking is that you consider your actions in giving step by step instruction is HURTING US. We live it, so don't belittle us by saying you are doing no harm. What harm would come to you if you stopped doling out free advice?
                    Same hyopthetical I gave in the other thread what do say to the big shops which say small companies are popping up every where and hurting their business? You cannot be critical of those hurting your dreams without owning the fact you are hurting theirs.


                    Originally posted by Plumbcrazy View Post

                    I know, no sweat off your back. Doesn't effect me, I don't care!

                    BUT YOU SEEM TO REALLY CARE ABOUT THE DIY'ER - why not others in your own profession????
                    I have assisted at least a dozen guys start their own shop knowing they would someday be my competition. I give out advice without considering whether they are a DIY or a young guy starting out. I receive no money either way but I am rewarded for what I do. I do agree there needs to be a limit to the advice which is given but those who feel their only downfall in business is advice given to DIY are just wrong.

                    Originally posted by Plumbcrazy View Post

                    Caryn - Being a good person, if you had a friend or family member needing plumbing services, the best thing to do is to refer them here for free advice so that they too can avoid paying a plumber for the easy work. Referring any of our businesses to them if the job is easy would be a disservice to them. They deserve to save money just as you did.

                    Mark
                    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: DIY'er - To give or not to give?

                      As long as Rigids web site has a "Ask the Pro's" section nothing will change.

                      I doubt anything will change the mindset of a plumber giving free advise to other people.

                      I understand exactly what Plumbcrazy means to fixitmom. Tell us the name of your fur supplier, tell us how to ebay and we will be on the same playing field.

                      This site however, has changed how I view Ridgid.

                      These threads about DIY and PCplumbers selling seminars lately have made me think about the service industry and where it's going.
                      Anyone can tear a man down, few can build one up.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: DIY'er - To give or not to give?

                        Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                        Wow I hope you are not referring to me as the old guy. Regardless of what Adam has told you I am 55-years old and if I can get away with it I will work another 30-years. Many of those who are doing what I am doing don't even start until their late 60s. I got lucky and started in my 30s. As for not realizing what you are going through I don't see how it is any different today than it was 30-years ago. Back then people still bought and installed their own stuff and many states did not even have contractor boards or building departments.Mark
                        You made me laugh. No, I wasn't referring to you as the old guy. However, today is very different. In the olden days you weren't competing against big franchises, with big advertising budgets sending out unskilled 'technicians' being passed off as plumbers. Homeowner goes to Yellow Pages and reads big fancy expensive ads and uses their services. The small guy must rely on their current customer base and referrals as there is little left over to take out a one page ad in the Yellow Pages. Where I live, the ad is close to $1000.00 per month. If I signed on, I would still be over 10 pages back.

                        DIY'ers years ago, yes. But they were taking a bigger risk because they didn't have the internet for step by step instruction.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: DIY'er - To give or not to give?

                          Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
                          What???
                          I certainly hope that not one person thinks that helping others on the internet is going to benefit them in a FINANCIAL way.

                          Is money why people invest in a forum like this?
                          Now I quess I'm the idiot.
                          What's the matter with me.
                          Yes, Ridgid marketing uses this site for promotional/marketing purposes.

                          The audience drawn for DIY questions is a free bonus, as they promote to the DIY market.

                          Dude, I know I can be fecitious, but there is another extreme, things aren't always simple, good n bad.

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                          • #28
                            Re: DIY'er - To give or not to give?

                            Is`nt this why we do this, to help some one.And all of us.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: DIY'er - To give or not to give?

                              Originally posted by cincy plumber View Post
                              Is`nt this why we do this, to help some one.And all of us.
                              There are almost 20,000 members of the Ridgid forum. Thats just 19,999 more than one.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: DIY'er - To give or not to give?

                                Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                                Fixitmom, you're right and wrong at the same time. As plumbers we have to use our experience to anticipate what might happen. You feel comfortable replacing your toilet.
                                So it isn't arrogance, mean spirit, or anything of the sort alot of times when something that a homeowner feels is ok to do doesn't feel right to a professional. And therefore many professionals will tell you to "call a local, recommended, licensed company" when you feel that you shouldn't have too.
                                Listing these kind of problems is the kind of thing that could convince a DIY to call the plumber. Arguing that it is bad for plumbers is never going to change a DIYers mind. Obviously, these are hard one lessons, and it is everyones choice as to whether or not they want to share them with DIYers.

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