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  • #76
    Re: Licensed vs. Unlicensed

    I met a young guy at the supply house once who had just gone out on his own as a drain cleaner. He was a nice guy with a young family and the type you just wanted to help. We started referring all of our drain cleaning work to him and he would refer plumbing work to us. As he grew I would refer less to him if my guys needed work but he still referred all of his plumbing work to us. Soon he put his back out and could no longer do roof work so he referred all of his roof work to us. When his back did not get better we soon started doing all of his main line work. At the end he was limited to just what he could do with a top snake and he referred all of the other stuff to us. After a couple of years he had to leave the trades and go find a desk job. Just another reminder not to limit your possibilities.

    Mark
    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

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    • #77
      Re: Licensed vs. Unlicensed

      Over the last ten years or so, there's been a movement in the franchised drain cleaning industry to have plumbers on the trucks rather than just drain cleaners. Heck, with the franchise model, you go to clean a drain and look for other problems that you can solve while you're there and triple your ticket.

      So, for plumbers, it would seem to be far more natural to clean drains too.

      My father was usually supervising crews on big commercial plumbing jobs and probably didn't clean two drains in forty years. And that would have been with either a flat tape or a hand-spun cable. But he wasn't a service plumber.

      I think that drain cleaning is a service that should be provided by service plumbers. When I first switched to 100% service, I still had memories of not making money cleaning drains, but now that I know how to price and close a sale I'm doing well with it.

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      • #78
        Re: Licensed vs. Unlicensed

        Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
        I met a young guy at the supply house once who had just gone out on his own as a drain cleaner. He was a nice guy with a young family and the type you just wanted to help. We started referring all of our drain cleaning work to him and he would refer plumbing work to us. As he grew I would refer less to him if my guys needed work but he still referred all of his plumbing work to us. Soon he put his back out and could no longer do roof work so he referred all of his roof work to us. When his back did not get better we soon started doing all of his main line work. At the end he was limited to just what he could do with a top snake and he referred all of the other stuff to us. After a couple of years he had to leave the trades and go find a desk job. Just another reminder not to limit your possibilities.

        Mark


        Damn, that sounds like my current journey.

        That's why I'm doing my best to diversify and bring in capital from numerous sources because like Dr. Phil says in relation to my situation, there's going to come a day and time when "That dog won't hunt" anymore.
        Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

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        • #79
          Re: Licensed vs. Unlicensed

          Originally posted by DUNBAR View Post
          Damn, that sounds like my current journey.

          That's why I'm doing my best to diversify and bring in capital from numerous sources because like Dr. Phil says in relation to my situation, there's going to come a day and time when "That dog won't hunt" anymore.
          LOL-Are you sure you are not spending too much time watching daytime television?

          Mark
          "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

          I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

          Comment


          • #80
            Re: Licensed vs. Unlicensed

            Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
            LOL-Are you sure you are not spending too much time watching daytime television?

            Mark



            Yeah, I know. I'm still reeling from Montel Williams leaving the airwaves. Tough times.
            Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

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            • #81
              Re: Licensed vs. Unlicensed

              Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
              Sorry?...why?

              Quite frankly, you all are prolly right.
              Ben could tell ya, I'm as bad as JC when it comes to letting go of money.

              However, I betcha Mark understands the importance of getting as much as possible from every dime I invest.

              Ben has suggested I get a K-39 to start, however...I could wind up wishing I'd used that money towards a larger machine if it turns out I was missing out on calls.

              The only way to learn is to put the whole thing to the test, I'm going to look around and see if renting a machine is possible in my area, then take it from there.
              Rental machines here are crap. Manual feed drum machines, sometimes with motors that are too weak for the cables that are inside.

              I get only 5 or 6 calls a year on mainlines, but that is because all of my industry contacts know I don't typically do drain cleaning. Have been thinking lots lately on getting one though, and letting the everyone know that I do drains.

              The only machine I own is a super vee circa 1996 slide chuck.

              Greg

              Comment


              • #82
                Re: Licensed vs. Unlicensed

                "Just another reminder not to limit your possibilities."

                You could also make a good argument for not working stupid or over-exerting yourself. Pull your back out trying to be the hero enough times and it can cost you down the road.

                Work safe and engage your brain is all I'm saying.
                "When we build let us think we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone. Let it be such work that our descendants will thank us for, and let us think, as we lay stone upon stone, that a time is to come when these stones will be held sacred because our hands have touched them, and that men will say, as they look upon the labor and wrought substance of them, "See! This our fathers did for us."
                John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

                Comment


                • #83
                  Re: Licensed vs. Unlicensed

                  Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                  Driving a car is simple too but we require licensing and regulations for that as well.

                  Mark
                  If people had been driving for 80 years with no trouble then I would say licensing would be pointless. People have been drain cleaning for years with no licensing and things are still working good.

                  I'll say it again. I don't want the government to protect my job. I don't believe a test the state of Michigan will give to drain cleaners will help with drain cleaning proficiency or keep old folks from getting ripped off. It will take more money from business owners

                  O.K. How about this. The plumbing license will not allow a person to drain clean. You would have to get a separate license just for drain cleaning.

                  I'm just doing what I can to keep the government out of my life and business.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Re: Licensed vs. Unlicensed

                    Originally posted by saysflushable View Post
                    If people had been driving for 80 years with no trouble then I would say licensing would be pointless. People have been drain cleaning for years with no licensing and things are still working good.

                    I'll say it again. I don't want the government to protect my job. I don't believe a test the state of Michigan will give to drain cleaners will help with drain cleaning proficiency or keep old folks from getting ripped off. It will take more money from business owners

                    O.K. How about this. The plumbing license will not allow a person to drain clean. You would have to get a separate license just for drain cleaning.

                    I'm just doing what I can to keep the government out of my life and business.
                    I would not be too quick to say drain cleaners don't cause problems. There are good ones and there are bad ones. I recently had a project where a drain cleaner did not understand the purpose of a backwater valve which was protecting a home in the hills. When he had problems with it he removed the flapped and installed a loose Jim cap on the side of the house. Everything was fine until the city main stopped up and 450 homes worth of sewage shot out the side of the house like a fire hos and entered a fresh water creek.

                    The purpose of licensing a drain cleaner would be to assure he had at least a minimum knowledge of plumbing. Why would a plumber need to take a test to show he had minimum knowledge when he has already had to take a harder test?

                    This is not an attack on drain cleaners but at least in my area there are no requirements for any qualifications to be a drain cleaner.

                    Mark
                    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Re: Licensed vs. Unlicensed

                      My 2 cents is that this Thank You button is way over used

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Re: Licensed vs. Unlicensed

                        Originally posted by stecar View Post
                        My 2 cents is that this Thank You button is way over used
                        we need the thumbs down button
                        Charlie

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                        • #87
                          Re: Licensed vs. Unlicensed

                          Originally posted by Bob D. View Post
                          "Just another reminder not to limit your possibilities."

                          You could also make a good argument for not working stupid or over-exerting yourself. Pull your back out trying to be the hero enough times and it can cost you down the road.

                          Work safe and engage your brain is all I'm saying.
                          Completely on the same page as I am.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Re: Licensed vs. Unlicensed

                            Originally posted by HVAC HAWK View Post
                            we need the thumbs down button
                            ...and an "I agree with all your points except the one about the..." button.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Re: Licensed vs. Unlicensed

                              And who's going to pay for all this licensing? Most city and county governments are strapped as it is. They don't have the manpower to administer and police new licensing. My local Code Enforcement just went to a 4 day work week to help defray(sp? Stxrus, please look that one up for me, I don't have the time after spending and hour reading through this whole thread!) costs. Would a permit be required to clear a mainline?

                              Regarding a plumber should have a snake, everyone has their niche and should know what they are good at. Should every plumber own a backhoe in order to replace that broken down sewer. Should every plumber own a jetter?(I think that one has been discussed before) a camera, a cross connection certificate, a gasoline powered diamond chain saw?

                              I don't own a sewer or even a sink machine. There's no room on my truck. I'd have to go home and get it everytime a call came in for one. There's no profit there.

                              If a drain "tech" enters a line from anything other than a cleanout or vent (traps included), he's already breaking the law. He's already supposed to be licensed to cut into any waste pipe. So, requiring him to get a separate drain license is not going to stop that. It's also not going to stop the 18 yr old that is living with his mom and no overhead (that was mentioned about pg 3) from buying a sink machine and going into "business". He is already breaking the law on all sorts of levels not to mention income tax evasion(probably).

                              Wearing your body out early? Hell yeah. If you tote those machines around for just a little while you had better have your insurance premiums paid up.

                              So, is drain cleaning a natural for plumbers? Maybe, but so is lawn irrigation. It's water, pipes, cross connections, sprays, nozzles, pipe sizing, glue and cleaner. I guarantee the repair end of it is at least as lucrative as drain cleaning for 10 months out of the year around here. Let's see, a 250lb sewer machine vs. a .25 pound rotor....
                              Isn't it about helping your customer, profits, and doing what you do (read want to do) well?

                              Sorry, I got off of the licensing issue. I was just addressing a few points that have been brought up in the previous pages.
                              Licensing would have been practical if it had been started decades ago. I don't think it can be administered now. I think you should have to show a license in order to buy any water heater, toilet, or dwv fitting or else fill out a form and have it notorized that you are not going to do any illegal plumbing.
                              "Man will do many things to get himself loved, he will do all things to get himself envied." Mark Twain

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                              • #90
                                Re: Licensed vs. Unlicensed

                                License regulation has a way of getting bigger but not better. I was licensed for one business I owned. At first it was not bad just an inspection once a year then they started telling me what type of equipment I hadto use how I had to do things that didn't even have anything to do with my job. The equipment I had to use was not the proper thing to use and instead of keeping things cleaner actually made more mess. one piece of equipment I was required to have didn't even exsest, when I asked them where I could get it and that I never even heard of it, they told me that was my problem not there's but I better have it. It is like telling a carpenter he has to use a rubber mallet to hammer in a nail. I find most regulations are made by big companies to try to drive the little man out of business so they can get his business. I probable have more money invested in equipment and knowledge then some.And as far as the test how about what happened with the trucking industry a few years ago they decided to make drivers have a CDL, most of the old truck drivers didn't like tests so they quiet. The people who were test smart took the test and passed the written part there was only one problem they didn't know how to drive a truck. The short of it was we lost all our safe experienced drivers and had to import truckers from England because the test takers didn't know how to drive a truck and couldn't pass the last part of the test. What's a stick shift. Don't get me wrong IM all for doing things the right way and keeping it safe But I doubt any one of the people who would right the regulations ever cleaned a drain and there going to tell me what equipment to use I doubt any of the machines made to day would pass, an open drum NO WAY sharp cutters that could cut the pipe NO WAY A FULL BODY SUITE WITH FACE MASK IN 100 DEG. WETHER WAY. PLASTIC CUTTERS WAY, NOT BEING ABLE TO CLEAN A DRAIN OUT RIGHT WAY. I know that is was why I quiet my last business I couldn't do the job right with what I had to work with and my customers were the ones to suffer a long with the environment as people started doing things that they never would have done if things were left alone until everyone of us can hold the regulators responsible for there actions and not give them a blank book to wright the regulations in I say NO WAY.

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