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  • need help

    heres 1 for u guys----
    i have a small bar that has water issues--if you flush 2 urinals, u get a dribble out of the lav faucet or any faucet---heres what i found from investigating
    1--water main comes from house in front of bar--3/4 main enters home and is reduced to 5/8 meter and then has 2 3/4 meters after it---1 is for bar and other is 4 other property( cluster of 2 homes and bar behind) main to bar is 3/4 copper

    2---3/4 copper enters bar behind new 45k dollar wine cellar and after ball valve thats inaccessible it reduces to 1/2 copper---1/2 then runs to second floor and directly to hwtank--there is about 60 ft of copper upstairs of each cold and hot--1/2 of each is 3/4 , the other half is 1/2 " copper---main is on 2nd floor and supplies down to 1st floor

    3-there are 2 restrooms-- 1 mens with 2 urinals and 2 toilets, and 1 womens with 2 toilets--each has 1 faucet------there is 1 employee r/r with 1 toilet and faucet ----------there is 1 3 bowl prep sink, there is 1 hand wash sink and 2 bar sinks

    4 at the meters, i had 60 psi and about 17 gpm---
    5--- i think the restriction in pipe size is the main problem, and this guy wants this solved quick with a booster pump

    i dont think booster pump is the answer unless i get a large storage tank with float system--i know main should be 2" and it cant be changed--there is a new 60 k parking lot in the way and 2 homes--not an option--dont even suggest--i know it needs, but aint happening----also, the 3/4 main reduced to 1/2" needs changed, but cant either--the new cellar is on it and it cant be accesed through or around---dont suggest, cuz it cant happen either

    heres my issue---i have a nice grundfos booster system that will build any gpm and pressure from atmospheric---how big of storage tank and what kind of float system or low water cutoff in emergency situation to avoid dry pumping----

    again the 2 things that need done cant happen, if u saw this u would understand--so with that in mind, what can i do or what size tank and how to keep from running dry????ask away--i need help

    jason

  • #2
    Re: need help

    "3/4 main enters home and then is reduced to 5/8" meter"

    Explain this setup a little better please.

    Thanks.

    J.C.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: need help

      there are 2 homes with the bar behind them---the water for all 3 is in 1 of the homes---off the city main, 3/4" pipe enters the home--it is reduced from 3/4 copper to a 5/8 meter--then runs 10 ft before it tees to 2 more meters--one 4 bar, 1 for other home

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: need help

        I am suprised they got away with this setup. I would guess it would have to be changed if the property were to ever be divided up and sold. 5/8" meter reduces the pipe to 1/2" thread. Waaaaaayyyyy to small to be feeding two houses and a commercial business.
        Distractions are everywhere, don't lose sight of your dream.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: need help

          Gotta' say I'm confused. I know you're skilled and have exhausted some options. But are you saying there is no access to this 5/8" meter?

          J.C.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: need help

            and there is no backflow preventers either---what to do???????

            if i can figure this one out, ill add backflows in my quote-

            i need a storage tank to fill and pump from it in bar---suggestions on size?????

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: need help

              there is access to all meters, they are in house up front----no access to main in bar----it enters in bar behind cellar from house in 3/4" and has a 3/4 by 1/2 " red. coupler that runs 1/2" to 2nd floor

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: need help

                apparently no permits were pulled when 150 k remodel was done 3 years ago to bar

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: need help

                  I don't think you can calculate a size without knowing turnover rates for usage. WrenchSpinner is the resident engineer.

                  Never ran into one where there wasn't access to the meter and piping in/out. Learn something new everyday.

                  J.C.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: need help

                    Originally posted by plumberjr View Post
                    there is access to all meters, they are in house up front----no access to main in bar----it enters in bar behind cellar from house in 3/4" and has a 3/4 by 1/2 " red. coupler that runs 1/2" to 2nd floor
                    First, I'd change the 5/8" meter even if you end up with a pump/tank setup.

                    And can you connect behind the 3/4" by 1/2" coupling? Make it all 3/4"? Wouldn't look bad exposed in most bars. Shiny copper (for a while) straight and braced.

                    Also, I could swear I recall seeing very large bladder tanks that helped with this. But I HAVE NOT installed to solve problems such as yours. So I could be thinking out of my rear.

                    J.C.
                    Last edited by BobsPlumbing; 09-11-2008, 10:11 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: need help

                      You can put lipstick on a water service, but if it's garbage, little water. You're a plumber , not a magician!!
                      I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: need help

                        In my mind I'm trying to avoid a pump & tank system as that's more maintenance.

                        J.C.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: need help

                          more maintenance, but they have volume and pressure ---and im the hero

                          its the only way

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: need help

                            Gotta' know the turnover rate vs. incoming volume & pressure imo. Might need an engineer to get exact. Or oversize.

                            So, I'll ask the dumb question to whoever.

                            What would a large bladder/well tank placed on the second floor do for this situation?

                            J.C.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: need help

                              that bladder tank would increase pressure only---i need volume---not pressure---

                              thats why i need to fill storage tank and pump from it to make 60 psi and provide the volume i need----

                              Comment

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