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  • #16
    Re: Repair or replace? That is the question

    Hamlet's Faucet (with apologies to the Bard)

    To replace or not to replace, that is the question.
    Whether tis nobler in the mind to suffer the leaks and drips of outrageous faucets, or to take tools against a sea of water and by opposing-fix them.

    To repair-to replace-no more
    And by 'to replace' we say we end the heartache and a thousand natural leaks that faucets are heir to - tis a consummation devoutly to be wished.

    To repair-to repair-then to leave--aye, there's the rub, for in that repair that we could do in our sleep what leaks may come when we have shuffled off this mortal coil must give us pause.... There's the respect that makes calamity of such shoddy plumbing.

    For who would bear the whips and scorns of the customer..
    The parts are wrong
    The proud customers contumely
    The pangs of desprised repairs
    The supply house delays
    The insolence of office
    And the spurns that patient merit of the unworthy plumber takes
    When he himself might his quietus make with a bare bodkin

    Who would heavy tool bags bear
    but that the dread of something after we leave the premises
    puzzles the will - and makes us rather replace the faucet than risk something else leak that we know not of.

    Thus, conscience doth make cowards of us all
    And thus, the native hue of brushed nickel
    Is sicklied o'er with the slipped grip of the channel locks
    And enterprises of great pith and moment with this regard their intentions turn awry.
    And lose the name of action.
    "Man will do many things to get himself loved, he will do all things to get himself envied." Mark Twain

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Repair or replace? That is the question

      TIM that was awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Repair or replace? That is the question

        Originally posted by slimtim View Post
        hamlet's faucet (with apologies to the bard)

        to replace or not to replace, that is the question.
        Whether tis nobler in the mind to suffer the leaks and drips of outrageous faucets, or to take tools against a sea of water and by opposing-fix them.

        To repair-to replace-no more
        and by 'to replace' we say we end the heartache and a thousand natural leaks that faucets are heir to - tis a consummation devoutly to be wished.

        To repair-to repair-then to leave--aye, there's the rub, for in that repair that we could do in our sleep what leaks may come when we have shuffled off this mortal coil must give us pause.... There's the respect that makes calamity of such shoddy plumbing.

        For who would bear the whips and scorns of the customer..
        The parts are wrong
        the proud customers contumely
        the pangs of desprised repairs
        the supply house delays
        the insolence of office
        and the spurns that patient merit of the unworthy plumber takes
        when he himself might his quietus make with a bare bodkin

        who would heavy tool bags bear
        but that the dread of something after we leave the premises
        puzzles the will - and makes us rather replace the faucet than risk something else leak that we know not of.

        Thus, conscience doth make cowards of us all
        and thus, the native hue of brushed nickel
        is sicklied o'er with the slipped grip of the channel locks
        and enterprises of great pith and moment with this regard their intentions turn awry.
        And lose the name of action.
        that's what i just said!
        I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Repair or replace? That is the question

          Is skill a factor in the decision between recommendation to repair or replace?

          Is it about an old faucet that can't be trusted, or is it about having the experience required for a successful rebuild?
          spodelee

          Until lions have their own storytellers, stories of the hunt shall always glorify the hunter

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Repair or replace? That is the question

            Originally posted by spodelee View Post
            Is skill a factor in the decision between recommendation to repair or replace?

            Is it about an old faucet that can't be trusted, or is it about having the experience required for a successful rebuild?
            yes it is.

            if the person who is sent there to fix the faucet, is not knowledgeable, then they won't be able to fix it. they won't be able to identify the faucet, stems, seats.

            if the person is on commission. they have no real incentive to replace a couple washers and seats either.

            remember that it's service and repair. not replace.

            a service person should carry an 0-ring kit, washer kit, seat kit with thread gauge , fiber washers, packings and the most common stems.

            if they don't, they're not there to fix it. they're there to sell a new fixture.

            sure there are times that i have to i.d the fixture and get the proper cartridges,divertor,stems. but then again, i can't carry everything, just the common and not so common stuff for my customers.

            if they don't come there with the basics, they aren't there to repair it.

            rick.
            phoebe it is

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Repair or replace? That is the question

              Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
              yes it is.

              if the person who is sent there to fix the faucet, is not knowledgeable, then they won't be able to fix it. they won't be able to identify the faucet, stems, seats.

              if the person is on commission. they have no real incentive to replace a couple washers and seats either.

              remember that it's service and repair. not replace.

              a service person should carry an 0-ring kit, washer kit, seat kit with thread gauge , fiber washers, packings and the most common stems.

              if they don't, they're not there to fix it. they're there to sell a new fixture.

              sure there are times that i have to i.d the fixture and get the proper cartridges,divertor,stems. but then again, i can't carry everything, just the common and not so common stuff for my customers.

              if they don't come there with the basics, they aren't there to repair it.

              rick.
              Understood but another dumb question - Once parts have been obtained and we are ready to go to work, is experience key to disassembly and reassembly, or is the experience required more for the planning stage than the execution stage?

              You know Rick, I'll bet I just drive you nuts!
              spodelee

              Until lions have their own storytellers, stories of the hunt shall always glorify the hunter

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Repair or replace? That is the question

                Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                yes it is.

                if the person who is sent there to fix the faucet, is not knowledgeable, then they won't be able to fix it. they won't be able to identify the faucet, stems, seats.

                if the person is on commission. they have no real incentive to replace a couple washers and seats either.

                remember that it's service and repair. not replace.

                a service person should carry an 0-ring kit, washer kit, seat kit with thread gauge , fiber washers, packings and the most common stems.

                if they don't, they're not there to fix it. they're there to sell a new fixture.

                sure there are times that i have to i.d the fixture and get the proper cartridges,divertor,stems. but then again, i can't carry everything, just the common and not so common stuff for my customers.

                if they don't come there with the basics, they aren't there to repair it.

                rick.

                You make some good points, but I did not see anyone mention the value of the customers time while you order or run to the parts house for that stem or seat. Sure any good service plumber carriers an assortment of repair parts, but sometimes it is best to be a "Parts Changer" for the benefit of the customer.

                The old tradesmen always seem to think their value is inhanced because the can "Fix" everything. When in fact you may be doing your customer an injustice by taking that extra time to fart around with a faucet not worth fixin. Maybe if you felt proud enough of your trade you would be willing to "offer" that customer the "Option" of rebuilding their 10 year old faucet or installing a much better quality new one.

                I appreciate your pride in your abilities, but our customers now lose a lot of money waiting at home for the old pro's to do their "old school" repairs. God forbid you reschedule a call to rebuild a faucet with order in parts and make the customer lose another days pay.

                A skilled service plumber should take into account the "best" options for their customer, period! More often than not a "new" faucet is the best option for all those involved.

                Of course "Just My Opinion"

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Repair or replace? That is the question

                  I carry the big Delta faucet repair kit, a big washer and screw kit, a couple Moen cartriges (pieces of crap) and some packing to repair faucets. If I have to order stems or odd ball parts I'm probably going to talk them into replacint the faucet. Unless the faucet is something special it doesn't make economic sense to make two service calls plus the parts, to repair an old faucet.
                  As for having a warehouse full of stems, handles and the like, it's again not cost effective to hang on to inventory that will probably never get turned over. We used to break down old faucets and save the good parts for re-use but really, what's the point? Sell new. Warranty new. Lately I've adopted a don't know, don't care attitude when someone asks me to identify some crusty 30 year old lav faucet. Change the piece of crap and get it over with.
                  sigpic

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Repair or replace? That is the question

                    A "crusty, 30 yr old" lav faucet is one thing. A two, three, or twelve hundred dollar faucet is another. Who in their right mind would want to change out a $200.00 faucet when all it needs is a $25.00 cartridge? Even if it does have to be ordered.
                    Not only do I not carry $4000.00 worth of new stems and cartridges, I don't carry a bunch of new faucets which will be out of style in one month.
                    It's extremely subjective. The customer picked out and bought the faucet they have because they liked it. How about being the hero and repairing it like new!
                    "Man will do many things to get himself loved, he will do all things to get himself envied." Mark Twain

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Repair or replace? That is the question

                      Originally posted by SlimTim View Post
                      Hamlet's Faucet (with apologies to the Bard)

                      To replace or not to replace, that is the question.
                      Whether tis nobler in the mind to suffer the leaks and drips of outrageous faucets, or to take tools against a sea of water and by opposing-fix them.

                      To repair-to replace-no more
                      And by 'to replace' we say we end the heartache and a thousand natural leaks that faucets are heir to - tis a consummation devoutly to be wished.

                      To repair-to repair-then to leave--aye, there's the rub, for in that repair that we could do in our sleep what leaks may come when we have shuffled off this mortal coil must give us pause.... There's the respect that makes calamity of such shoddy plumbing.

                      For who would bear the whips and scorns of the customer..
                      The parts are wrong
                      The proud customers contumely
                      The pangs of desprised repairs
                      The supply house delays
                      The insolence of office
                      And the spurns that patient merit of the unworthy plumber takes
                      When he himself might his quietus make with a bare bodkin

                      Who would heavy tool bags bear
                      but that the dread of something after we leave the premises
                      puzzles the will - and makes us rather replace the faucet than risk something else leak that we know not of.

                      Thus, conscience doth make cowards of us all
                      And thus, the native hue of brushed nickel
                      Is sicklied o'er with the slipped grip of the channel locks
                      And enterprises of great pith and moment with this regard their intentions turn awry.
                      And lose the name of action.
                      BRAVO

                      very well stated and quite poetic to boot

                      steve
                      In the never ending struggle to keep the water flowing.... The Poo Poo Cowboy rides again!!!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Repair or replace? That is the question

                        just a thought.

                        i come across "old" faucets all the time. i keep them and add them to the pile.

                        when i bored or have down time, i see if i can fix them. if i can't, i turf them.

                        if i can, i rebuild them and put them away.

                        if one of my customers needs a new faucet i offer them a rebuilt one with a 1 year warranty. i wouldn't offer this because i wouldn't rebuild anything questionable.

                        it's a cheaper alternative for my customers. i sell them half price and get paid to install it too. little cha ching.

                        Vince

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Repair or replace? That is the question

                          Originally posted by SlimTim View Post
                          A "crusty, 30 yr old" lav faucet is one thing. A two, three, or twelve hundred dollar faucet is another. Who in their right mind would want to change out a $200.00 faucet when all it needs is a $25.00 cartridge? Even if it does have to be ordered.
                          Not only do I not carry $4000.00 worth of new stems and cartridges, I don't carry a bunch of new faucets which will be out of style in one month.
                          It's extremely subjective. The customer picked out and bought the faucet they have because they liked it. How about being the hero and repairing it like new!
                          Are you turning that $ 4,000.00 dollar inventory over fast enough to make carrying it profitable, or are you paying taxes on the majority of it year after year? Do you figure this hidden expense into the cost of the part when you bill the customer? I agree about the very expensive stuff but parts and labor on a $ 200.00 faucet will rapidly exceed the price of a new one especially if you have to order the part and make two trips. If it is a 200 dollar Delta and I have the parts (and I probably do) fine, I fix it. Otherwise I will recommend replacement.
                          sigpic

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Repair or replace? That is the question

                            Here's how I got there. 25 bucks for the stem. 135 bucks for the first trip out. 135 bucks for the second trip out. 290 dollars to repair a faucet that is probably 10 years old. If you're not charging both trips or aren't charging at least a hundred dollars an hour for labor you are loosing money on the job. If you don't think so, hire a cost accountant to come in and review your business expenses and operating costs. I'm all for being a hero but not at my expense.
                            sigpic

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Repair or replace? That is the question

                              Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                              Here's how I got there. 25 bucks for the stem. 135 bucks for the first trip out. 135 bucks for the second trip out. 290 dollars to repair a faucet that is probably 10 years old. If you're not charging both trips or aren't charging at least a hundred dollars an hour for labor you are loosing money on the job. If you don't think so, hire a cost accountant to come in and review your business expenses and operating costs. I'm all for being a hero but not at my expense.
                              Oh dang, here we go with the "minimum charge" thing again.
                              First of all, I think you misread my post, I said I do NOT carry $4000.00 worth of stems.
                              Second, I charge more per hour than you are quoting.
                              But are you saying you charge $135.00 for the 1st trip there which took about 15 min to identify the faucet and then another $135.00 to install the new cartridge which probably took only 30 minutes? You must be very charming if your customers continue to call.

                              Regardless, if your total bill is over $200 (slightly), it's still $200 cheaper than installing a new faucet which can often have complications under the sink which will extend the install time. That's a deal breaker for a lot of people.

                              Agreed, if it's over 10 yrs and not a good faucet, offer to install a new one that you recommend and they purchase.
                              "Man will do many things to get himself loved, he will do all things to get himself envied." Mark Twain

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Repair or replace? That is the question

                                Why not let the customer decide? Keep a couple faucets on hand along with repair parts for most faucets and present with the options but do it honestly. Don't mark up the rebuilt faucet fee to sway the customer to buy a new faucet. If they see the new faucet, they might decide that old betsy isn't looking so good and they like your new faucet better.
                                Buy cheap, buy twice.

                                Comment

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