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  • Hey Vince !

    Does it get too cold up there to use propane?
    sigpic

  • #2
    Re: Hey Vince !

    Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
    Does it get too cold up there to use propane?
    funny you say that. i was just talking to one of my customers about gas kilns. currently he uses electric.

    there aren't any propane vehicles up here that i'm aware of. no place to fill them.

    i don't even bother trying to use a propane torch outside at -40. acetylene.

    in churchill manitoba they use propane. they have these big electric bankets for the -40 weather. churchill is also at the end of the rail line from the south. so they would be able to get the propane at a much cheaper cost that we could. i am located another 300 miles north of churchill.

    we a little funny up here in case you haven't figured that out yet. one year the tender went out for the fuel re-supply contract and we ended up getting gas from south america. seems it was cheaper to buy the gas down there than buy it from ourselves. many (thousands) blown engines later, somebody figured out that the gas wasn't up to canadian spec.

    that's our gov't working hard for us. it's right up there with sewing a big reflective "X" on the back of our troops winter clothes. it's a really big target that can be seen at night. kinda looks like diagonal crosshairs

    tool junkie has it right; "Buy Cheap, Buy Twice"

    propane does work up here. a 20lber is $100 +. like i say, i got this gasfitting ticket to work on bbq's.

    Vince
    Last edited by Vince the Plumber; 10-29-2008, 06:37 PM. Reason: please change the quote of "tool" to "gear" sorry.

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    • #3
      Re: Hey Vince !

      It's gear junkie but I knew what you meant. I never thought about it but Steve's question is very interesting. What's the boiling point of propane?
      Buy cheap, buy twice.

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      • #4
        Re: Hey Vince !

        Originally posted by gear junkie View Post
        It's gear junkie but I knew what you meant. I never thought about it but Steve's question is very interesting. What's the boiling point of propane?
        theoretically, -44 f if memory serves me right.

        propane torches don't work at -40.

        maybe i'm reading the thermometer upside down.

        Vince

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        • #5
          Re: Hey Vince !

          Our propane supplier says that propane freezes at -50 below zero (Fahrenheit) We hit that temp a few years back, but I had a sheet of black plastic over my tank (sun really helps when you do that), so mine didn't freeze. Some of the neighbors had problems, tho.

          Jim

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          • #6
            Re: Hey Vince !

            Originally posted by Pipestone Kid View Post
            Our propane supplier says that propane freezes at -50 below zero (Fahrenheit) We hit that temp a few years back, but I had a sheet of black plastic over my tank (sun really helps when you do that), so mine didn't freeze. Some of the neighbors had problems, tho.

            Jim
            i'm starting to notice that sometimes what's on paper and what happens in the real world are two different things.

            here's a brain teaser, does the wind chill have a effect on objects such as,.....well hec lets use a propane bottle for example? 16.4oz/465g

            i've been told that it doesn't. what i see, or feel in this case is yes, it is affected by the wind.

            Vince

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            • #7
              Re: Hey Vince !

              Originally posted by Vince the Plumber View Post
              i'm starting to notice that sometimes what's on paper and what happens in the real world are two different things.

              here's a brain teaser, does the wind chill have a effect on objects such as,.....well hec lets use a propane bottle for example? 16.4oz/465g

              i've been told that it doesn't. what i see, or feel in this case is yes, it is affected by the wind.

              Vince
              My guess is that it would for your small bottle, but not for something outdoors. My logic is that even without wind, a large outdoor container will drop to the outdoor temperature since it is there for so long. But for your small bottle, it starts out at room temperature and then needs to cool down. If there is no wind, then it trades heat with air that isn't moving very fast, so the temperature differential gets a tiny bit smaller. If there is wind, then the air around it moves, so the temperature differential is going to stay higher and it will cool down quicker. I am of course, just hypothesizing.

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              • #8
                Re: Hey Vince !

                thanks cpw.

                i touched a ss petroleum fitting at -40 with my bare hand once as an apprentice. only once.

                ssssssstt is the sound your finger sweat makes when it freezes instantly. just like a burn, except opposite.

                here's some useless information for you to think about.
                -when i was doing the rum and coke thing years back, 40mph wind @ -40 = 12 (2/3 ea) ice cubes in less than 10 minutes.

                it gets colder than cold up here.

                and that's the way we like it.

                Vince

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                • #9
                  Re: Hey Vince !

                  I was in Vermont a few years back. It was about -25 and no one would sell me propane for my construction heater. Apparently they have a law about filling tanks when it gets too cold out.
                  sigpic

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                  • #10
                    Re: Hey Vince !

                    Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                    I was in Vermont a few years back. It was about -25 and no one would sell me propane for my construction heater. Apparently they have a law about filling tanks when it gets too cold out.
                    i was doing a job in yellowknife, northwest territories and worker's comp wouldn't allow the manlift to operate below -35. metal fatigue.

                    wasn't easy carrying everything up. made me appreciate what the old guys used to do.

                    Vince

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                    • #11
                      Re: Hey Vince !

                      And you really like the cold? When you get to be my age you begin to hate cold.
                      sigpic

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                      • #12
                        Re: Hey Vince !

                        wind chill is a theoretical measurement of what the wind does on exposed skin, and if the exposed skin is placed in a wind free temperature how fast will it freeze, (thus the seamely reduction intempature)

                        in a wind of "X" it feels like "Y" degrees of cold at "Z" degrees.

                        so since most mechanical objects are not made of flesh and blood with a basic freezing temperature of 32F or 0C, then you can not really make a equivalent comparison,

                        but we all know that if you increase the wind speed it will take more heat away from the object, (take a radiator in a truck for example if the fan belt (if the fan is separate from the water pump) the truck will over heat unless your moving and the speed of the vechile keep air moving over the fins of the radiator removing heat,

                        so yes you increase the speed of the wind you will remove the heat in the item quicker,
                        but it will not make it colder, if it say 20F, out no matter how high the wind speed, (with in reason) the temperature will remain 20F, now will the heat in the item (if heat is being generated, it will be removed quicker, but not lower than 20F,

                        even on the skin the skin will not get below 20F, but it will get to freezing faster, and depeinging on where it is, the blood flow many not be able to keep up with the heat loss thus resulting in the flesh freezing,

                        http://www.weather.gov/os/windchill/...glossary.shtml
                        1. What is wind chill temperature?

                        A. The wind chill temperature is how cold people and animals feel when outside. Windchill is based on the rate of heat loss from exposed skin caused by wind and cold. As the wind increases, it draws heat from the body, driving down skin temperature and eventually the internal body temperature. Therefore, the wind makes it FEEL much colder. If the temperature is 0 degrees Fahrenheit and the wind is blowing at 15 mph, the wind chill is -19 degrees Fahrenheit. At this wind chill temperature, exposed skin can freeze in 30 minutes.

                        2. Can wind chill impact my car's radiator or exposed water pipe? back

                        A. The only effect wind chill has on inanimate objects, such as car radiators and water pipes, is to shorten the amount of time for the object to cool. The inanimate object will not cool below the actual air temperature. For example, if the temperature outside is -5 degrees Fahrenheit and the wind chill temperature is -31 degrees Fahrenheit, then your car's radiator will not drop lower than -5 degrees Fahrenheit.
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                        • #13
                          Re: Hey Vince !

                          when it`s winter here I always have to put my propane torch that I use to D-Ice my K-7500 under the heater vent in the truck for about 5 minutes to get it to turn on.
                          http://www.all-clear-sewer.com/

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                          • #14
                            Re: Hey Vince !

                            Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                            And you really like the cold? When you get to be my age you begin to hate cold.
                            me, polor bears, and hunters all wait for the cold. as a plumber, up here frozen pipes are my bread and butter.

                            i lived in victoria, british columbia for about 2 years. i saw snow to a total of 2 days.

                            i missed the smell of it and the squeaking noise is makes when walked on so much i moved back north.

                            you can take the eskimo out of the north, but you can't take the north out of the eskimo.

                            Vince

                            it's a dry cold

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