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  • #16
    Re: Ferguson ProFlo

    This is why I don't understand why fergusons is considered a contractor supply house. Their product line is crap, it's cheaper at HD and you get higher quality products. Their sole purpose imo is if you're running a big project where you need a lot of material or an odd size of something. For 99% of everything else, I can get better deals online and at HD.
    Last edited by gear junkie; 11-24-2008, 07:36 AM.
    Buy cheap, buy twice.

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    • #17
      Re: Ferguson ProFlo

      Originally posted by nomoreleak View Post
      Great They will send you replacement parts but who pays to reinstall?? Kinda silly i think i'd rather just have it work right the first time!
      Wasn't my company, and while I do tend to agree with you, it worked out for my boss, who managed to keep everything going pretty well. But then, all we did were the same 10 or 12 floorplans as fast as possible.
      No, it's not rocket science, it's plumbing and unlike rocket science it requires a license.

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      • #18
        Re: Ferguson ProFlo

        Not to be a contrarian, but one ProFlo item I've used is surprisingly good. Their 17 ga. tubular p-traps, which come from Thailand are quite stout. I wouldn't be surprised if they were from the same manufacturer that makes Zurn's tubular.

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        • #19
          Re: Ferguson ProFlo

          I remain happy that Fergusons has not made headway in the northeast.
          sigpic

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          • #20
            Re: Ferguson ProFlo

            Originally posted by Service Guy View Post
            You're wrong. A lot of plumber's use the stuff around here. I replace Proflo fixtures all the time. The parts in the toilets are junk, the tank-to-bowl kits leak, the fillvalve and flapper are junk too. The faucets don't last. The washers get torn up, the stems have broken, etc. etc.
            I have replaced plenty of Kohler, Moen and Delta faucets also. I have also replaced or rebuilt plenty of AS and Kohler toilets. If someone wants a "cheap" fixture they fit the bill perfect. The toilets can be ordered with Fluidmaster fill valves and the faucets you get what you pay for. Most people don't want to rebuild an old crappy looking faucet they would rather replace it with a cheap new one for close to the same price. I have installed at least 100 of the toilets in four years and have NEVER had one call back. They flush 600 grams on the MAP testing which is 450 grams more than a Kohler Welworth that is 2x the cost. I don't think you are competing on low bidder jobs. As a cost plus "service plumber" I would use name brand only fixtures also.

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            • #21
              Re: Ferguson ProFlo

              Yeah, doing low bid jobs with super cheap fixtures is not something I would ever do. I'd sooner quit plumbing than resort to "low-bid" hack contracting.

              I have seen problems with faucets and toilets less than a year old with proflo. You guys that use them are great....you're giving me plenty of business replacing those fixtures. Thank you.

              p.s. even the guys that work at Ferguson admit that proflo fixtures are junk, they even joke about it openly.

              HACK, HACK, HACKITY HACK parts.
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              • #22
                Re: Ferguson ProFlo

                I feel the same way. I would also quit the plumbing trade if I had to resort to plunging toilets for a living. If someone asks for cheap fixtures I explain what they are getting. Most "hack" plumbing jobs I have seen are from a "Turd Hurder" that thinks they are plumbers. You are in a different business than a new construction contractor. I respect the business you are in, but understand it is different. I have had call backs on an AS and Kohler toiet that had an issue. It took 10 minutes to fix.

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                • #23
                  Re: Ferguson ProFlo

                  I have been in service exclusively for awhile now, and there are plenty of hacks in that side of the business too, that is for sure.
                  I didn't say I would never do construction plumbing. I have done construction on up to $10,000,000 mansions, when I learned plumbing in the hamptons. I said I would never stoop to the "lowest bidder" mentality that causes businesses to cut corners, put in cheap junk, and eventually go bankrupt.

                  I have been in service exclusively for awhile now, and there are plenty of hacks in that side of the business too, that is for sure.
                  I charge more than most of the service plumbers in town. I charge more than ALL of the construction plumbers in town. To do that, I make sure my service is on par or better than anyone else out there. From the 24 hour service, to the best tools and parts in the whole county.

                  It doesn't matter if you are a construction plumber or a service plumber, (or even a carpenter, electrician, or whatever.) I have known and respected many of BOTH. There are some real professional, intelligent, craftsmen that take pride in their parts and work in both sides of the business. Unfortunately there are also the hacks that put in the cheapest junk, and don't care....in service and construction both.
                  I know they will always exist, but the low-bidders of the home improvement world have no respect from me, no matter what trade they are in.

                  Sure, Proflo are great products if you like to work with cheap stuff. Good luck with that.
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                  • #24
                    Re: Ferguson ProFlo

                    Proflo Brand=Luxury Line Brand???

                    Just trying to get an idea of exactly how junk this stuff is...

                    Okie

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                    • #25
                      Re: Ferguson ProFlo

                      Bill, Their toilets have the lowest quality parts possible. Flapper, fillvalve and tank-to-bowl kit are among the cheapest I have ever seen. Actually, the rest of the toilet (the porcelain) isn't so bad. If all the parts are replaced with quality stuff, then the toilet is decent enough. The faucets are the same quality as Glacier bay.
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                      • #26
                        Re: Ferguson ProFlo

                        DOH!!!! Yep, the stuff is below Luxury Line What a shame...

                        I install alot of Lux line in rent houses... It is a hard sell to a slumlord I mean landlord when you try to explain that they will get more value if they let me install a Delta.

                        " If you install this brand I will be back again in a year or less if you install a Delta you will not need me for years..." The price difference is less then one trip call"

                        Cheap is the name of the game then they gripe when they want the good stuff in their personal houses and cant understand why it costs more then the fixtures I put in their rent houses... Can't win...

                        Okie

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                        • #27
                          Re: Ferguson ProFlo

                          Originally posted by Service Guy View Post
                          Bill, Their toilets have the lowest quality parts possible. Flapper, fillvalve and tank-to-bowl kit are among the cheapest I have ever seen. Actually, the rest of the toilet (the porcelain) isn't so bad. If all the parts are replaced with quality stuff, then the toilet is decent enough. The faucets are the same quality as Glacier bay.
                          When the products are coming from the SAME MANUFACTURER as DELTA,MOEN,Elkay...etc. Would the quality be differ?

                          Does a hollywood star's dress really costs over $5,000? I bet the material cost for the dress is less than $50, or else why would Macy, Target or even Wal-mart be selling the exact same clothing for under $50 the next month?

                          You are being "Hacked off" from the brand names. The same faucet coming from the same factories with different name on the back of it, the Price may differer but the quality is the same.

                          Pro-Flo maybe really is a cheap product, but have you ever consider the material costs behinde it? I say not.

                          Ferguson is the #1 distributer in the plumbing industry, I highly doubt they are stupid enough to use factory suppliers that will brings their name down.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Ferguson ProFlo

                            Originally posted by Cap View Post
                            When the products are coming from the SAME MANUFACTURER as DELTA,MOEN,Elkay...etc. Would the quality be differ? So where and which "namebrand" company produces the Proflow Brand???

                            Does a hollywood star's dress really costs over $5,000? I bet the material cost for the dress is less than $50, or else why would Macy, Target or even Wal-mart be selling the exact same clothing for under $50 the next month? So you are saying the quality is the same for the lower cost brands as the higher cost ones? Your exmple is an apple and oranges comparison... A dress is not a valve consider that statement and all of it's implications as it may pertain to this discussion

                            You are being "Hacked off" from the brand names. The same faucet coming from the same factories with different name on the back of it, the Price may differer but the quality is the same. Please provide examples of this by brand and model numbers or your statment is noting but smoke and mirrors...

                            Pro-Flo maybe really is a cheap product, but have you ever consider the material costs behinde it? I say not. What are the material costs behind it and how does that have a bearing on if it is a high quality product?

                            Ferguson is the #1 distributer in the plumbing industry, I highly doubt they are stupid enough to use factory suppliers that will brings their name down.
                            You better start doubting becuse just like any business ferguson's is in it to make money and guess what Proflow is their house brand which equals their biggest mark-ups (% profit), Remember that some of us have been buying plumbing materials for a VERY long time...

                            I will offer a bit of friendly advice...

                            It may not be a good idea to come into a professional plumbers forum and try to discredit the pro's who install these products on a daily basis without bring your "A game " .

                            Since I do not have a Ferguson's in my area I have no opinion on the Proflow line but I know that the pro's on this forum have installed your product so their opinion is valuable and will not be discredited by anything you have presented not because I don't know you or dislike you but becuse your statements are empty and lack facts.

                            You may need to stick to selling parts and leave your opinion behind your sales counter where it belongs...

                            Have a nice day

                            Okie





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                            • #29
                              Re: Ferguson ProFlo

                              Thank you for your friendly suggestion.

                              And, no, I'm not a guy from Ferguson or selling their products

                              As far as I know, Pro-Flo is a private label for Ferguson Enterprise, they were the largest plumbing distributor in the state which all they do is selling the products. Means they carry varieties of brands, delta..moens..Etc. and of course, they knows the source where these brands buying their products from.

                              And now, since they were in this business for numerous year, and which I believe they are in this industry longer than anyone who may appear here on this forum, due to the respect, I do think their professional experience in some ways may exceed far more than we may think of here. So Ferguson may have their consideration when they decided to launch their private label brand

                              Also, I owe an apology to any person here who may think I discredited for their effort, however please understand business is business, and I am very very sure a faucet doesn't worth $100 bucks because the materical cost is only about $40 bucks.

                              For example for the same product that comes from the same factory it costs $50 and sold to different brand: Delta and Pro-Flo

                              And why Delta can sell it up to $150 bucks while Pro-Flo is selling it for like $100?

                              Delta may offer better customer service, besides they had a long history of selling faucet products. They are professional in this area because of their reputation is built up. (200% Profit)

                              Pro-Flo is a new comer who is trying to get in this business, by knowing other products material costs isn't that high they managed to lowered selling price. They are getting into the faucet industry but they may not yet a professional at it yet. (100% Profit)

                              But they are both selling the same/similar product just under different brand name. so like you said, why would the quality differ if they are both coming out from the same supplier?? If there's problems found in Pro-Flo shouldn't Delta find the similar problem? other way around, if theres problem found in Delta faucet, Pro-Flo should too.

                              It is up to the customer if they think the brand name is worth the $50 difference, all we can do is giving them our friendly suggestions.

                              (BTW, so do you think those cloth on the hot actress really do cost $5000 bucks to make? :P or could be made with only $25 and sold for $50?)


                              Have a wonderful day to you too
                              Last edited by Cap; 12-05-2008, 08:50 AM.

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                              • #30
                                Re: Ferguson ProFlo

                                Originally posted by Cap View Post
                                Thank you for your friendly suggestion.

                                And, no, I'm not a guy from Ferguson or selling their products. Right... I'm pretty sure your job was listed as "sales" a few minutes ago now you are "behind the scenes"

                                As far as I know, Pro-Flo is a private label for Ferguson Enterprise, they were the largest plumbing distributor in the state which all they do is selling the products. Means they carry varieties of brands, delta..moens..Etc. and of course, they knows the source where these brands buying their products from. I'm sure they know where they purchase there material from the point is do you and what bearing does it have on the opinion of a group of professionals who install these products on a daily basis...

                                And now, since they were in this business for numerous year, and which I believe they are in this industry longer than anyone who may appear here on this forum, due to the respect, I do think their professional experience in some ways may exceed far more than we may think of here. So Ferguson may have their consideration when they decided to launch their private label brand. So let's make sure I understand your logic... Since Fergusons has been selling plumbing materials longer than we have been plumbing they must know what is good product... Remember Furgeson's does not install or service the product they sell, We the Plumbers do.

                                Also, I owe an apology to any person here who may think I discredited for their effort, however please understand business is business, and I am very very sure a faucet doesn't worth $100 bucks because the materical cost is only about $40 bucks. Remember material cost is only one factor to consider, could there be any other factors that contribute to a higher price and may be of an added benefit?

                                For example for the same product that comes from the same factory it costs $50 and sold to different brand: Delta and Pro-Flo Are Delta and Proflow made at the same factory and of the same materials again please provide model numbers... The logic that since they are made at the same place they must be the same is flawed as well...

                                And why Delta can sell it up to $150 bucks while Pro-Flo is selling it for like $100? If I have to answer that question for you you won't get it, unless you believe this drivle you are trying to sell as fact in a transparent attempt to prop up a brand...

                                Delta may offer better customer service ( worth it's weight in gold to a customer), besides they had a long history of selling faucet products. They are professional in this area. (200% Profit).. I agree and worth the price based on EXPERIENCE installing and servicing the product.

                                Pro-Flo is a new comer who is trying to get in this business ( Good for them but do not try to do it on the coat tails of a company like DELTA), by knowing other products material costs isn't that high they managed to lowered selling price. ( Since there faucet only costs xx dollars in materials we can sell ours for less then them, You also assume that Delta and Proflow are equal products please provide model numbers for actual comparison, otherwise again another flaw in your logic) They are getting into the faucet industry but they may not yet a professional at it yet. (100% Profit)...

                                But they are both selling the same/similar (which is it then??? this is a key point) product just under different brand name ( Please provide proof of this statement) . so like you said, why would the quality differ if they are both coming out from the same supplier?? If there's problems found in Pro-Flo shouldn't Delta find the similar problem? other way around, if theres problem found in Delta faucet, Pro-Flo should too.

                                It is up to the customer if they think the brand name is worth the $50 difference, all we can do is giving them our friendly suggestions. Your logic is doing a customer a disservice... Because you sell them in NO way makes you qualified to offer advice on quality, workmanship or durbility... Remember you have no personal experience so this line you are pitching may work on joe customer but it will not hold water with a professional...

                                (BTW, so do you think those cloth on the hot actress really do cost $5000 bucks to make? :P or could be made with only $25 and sold for $50?) They cost $5000 because that is what was paid for it..... Get it??? Is that piece of canvas with some paint on it called "Irises" by Vincent Van gough really worth 80 million (yes because that is the price paid for it...)



                                Have a wonderful day to you too

                                Good luck and hope you hit your sales target / goal today...

                                Okie
                                Last edited by OkieBill; 12-05-2008, 09:48 AM.

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