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Shower arm question

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  • #16
    Re: Shower arm question

    Thanks for the info Utah. I had never heard of slip fir shower arms before. My friend thought I was crazy when I was taking the pictures and saying that can't work over and over.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Shower arm question

      Well, you figure it works for the tub spout, I can't see why it wouldn't work for the shower head.



      The installation practices of plumbing have taken the short road to HELL in my opinion.
      Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Shower arm question

        I don't see that thing saving any time or money if that was the point.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Shower arm question

          Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
          Mark it says Slip-Fit but it also says 1/2" IPS inlet?

          I'm confused

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Shower arm question

            Originally posted by DUNBAR View Post
            The installation practices of plumbing have taken the short road to HELL in my opinion.
            I agree, but who is to blame? Listen to plumbers talk and it always has something to do with speed, money or time. Either the boss wants a job done in half the time it takes or the homeowner brow beating on price.

            The guys on this forum must be an exception to the rule because the work that people talk about doing on here and what I see are totally different.

            I always use copper for my riser and with a drop ear even if I run pex to the valve.
            Anyone can tear a man down, few can build one up.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Shower arm question

              for me, its a matter of who I'm working for. We do a lot of jobs that we get paid based off of how long it takes us, and what our material costs are, we don't bid on those. To keep those costs down for the builder, we'll very often run the house in pex, the valves and stub outs in copper, Waste drops in cast iron, the rest of the waste in PVC. Those are our nicer jobs.

              The ones we bid on we have to keep costs down on, to stay profitable, those get as much pex as possible, right down to within 18 inches of the water heater, and all the way to the t&s valve, including the riser, the drop for the tub spout has to be copper, no matter what.

              Despite our use of wirsbo PEX, my company seems to mostly use Zurn fittings, with stainless steel rings. I honestly Don't know if those are more econimical than expansion fittings, but we do have a couple of wirsbo expanders floating around the shop.

              Anyway, blame customers budgets moreso than the plumber for the lackluster plumbing. I'm sure their are plenty of plumbers who shouldn't be allowed to install yard sprinklers, but most of us know a better way, and will use it when given the option.
              No, it's not rocket science, it's plumbing and unlike rocket science it requires a license.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Shower arm question

                Originally posted by plumberscrack View Post
                Mark it says Slip-Fit but it also says 1/2" IPS inlet?

                I'm confused
                I wonder if their improper description is any insight into the quality of their product?

                Here is a link to what Sioux Chief is now offering for slip fit type shower arms.

                http://www.siouxchief.com/Frm_MS.cfm

                Never mind it just links the catalog. Just search Shower WallNut.

                Mark
                "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Shower arm question

                  Originally posted by MoJourneyman View Post
                  for me, its a matter of who I'm working for. We do a lot of jobs that we get paid based off of how long it takes us, and what our material costs are, we don't bid on those. To keep those costs down for the builder, we'll very often run the house in pex, the valves and stub outs in copper, Waste drops in cast iron, the rest of the waste in PVC. Those are our nicer jobs.

                  The ones we bid on we have to keep costs down on, to stay profitable, those get as much pex as possible, right down to within 18 inches of the water heater, and all the way to the t&s valve, including the riser, the drop for the tub spout has to be copper, no matter what.

                  Despite our use of wirsbo PEX, my company seems to mostly use Zurn fittings, with stainless steel rings. I honestly Don't know if those are more econimical than expansion fittings, but we do have a couple of wirsbo expanders floating around the shop.

                  Anyway, blame customers budgets moreso than the plumber for the lackluster plumbing. I'm sure their are plenty of plumbers who shouldn't be allowed to install yard sprinklers, but most of us know a better way, and will use it when given the option.
                  I spoke to Uponor myself and went as high as I could in engineering/QC. The person claiming to be an engineer there (I'm not standing in his office looking at his sheet so I assume he's telling me the truth that he is an engineer) told me that no crimping or cinchclamp system is approved for Uponor or Wirsbo products. Even if they allowed it at one time.....no more. So if anyone wants to use Uponor's PEX with rings or clamps and you have a problem at any joint, it will be considered improper installation and the installers/owners of the company's fault.

                  J.C.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Shower arm question

                    Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                    I spoke to Uponor myself and went as high as I could in engineering/QC. The person claiming to be an engineer there (I'm not standing in his office looking at his sheet so I assume he's telling me the truth that he is an engineer) told me that no crimping or cinchclamp system is approved for Uponor or Wirsbo products. Even if they allowed it at one time.....no more. So if anyone wants to use Uponor's PEX with rings or clamps and you have a problem at any joint, it will be considered improper installation and the installers/owners of the company's fault.

                    J.C.
                    yeah, gotta love it when you void a warranty to save a buck.

                    though i'm more concerned about the plastic pex fittings than the bond between the fitting and pipe.
                    Isn't that the same problem that was had with polybutalene?
                    No, it's not rocket science, it's plumbing and unlike rocket science it requires a license.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Shower arm question

                      Originally posted by MoJourneyman View Post
                      yeah, gotta love it when you void a warranty to save a buck.

                      though i'm more concerned about the plastic pex fittings than the bond between the fitting and pipe.
                      Isn't that the same problem that was had with polybutalene?
                      Yes, uh...in a way. Different "EP" material that once again is only approved for expansion methods. No offense to anyone-but I would think that crimping an EP fitting would be considered the worst way to connect PEX.

                      It's not a approved connection. You're putting unknown stress on the EP fitting which could cause fracturing at some point. Regardless if it passes the plumbing pressure test.

                      The majority of Polybutylene plastic fittings I've seen give trouble were over stressed. In short, they were crimped, then one or more joints were stressed by someone bending the pipe too far or even the normal amount without enough clamps/hangers.

                      Over time, with expansion-contraction, chlorination breakdown etc. the fitting would "pop" under the stress.

                      Seen other Polybutylene in 20+years without one problem. Makes you wonder-What's a reasonable expectation that a water system should last without maintenance or leaks?

                      Either way, no crimpy the EP.

                      J.C.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Shower arm question

                        silly question, but when you say EP fitting, are you talking specifically about the wirsbo expansion fittings, or is that generic for any brand of plastic pex fitting?

                        I ask because when we crimp, we use zurn style crimp fittings, not expansion fittings.
                        No, it's not rocket science, it's plumbing and unlike rocket science it requires a license.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Shower arm question

                          EP is a plastic (Engineered Plastic? Can't remember exactly) fitting made by Uponor/Wirsbo. It's an expansion system fitting.

                          I have no sites or paperwork saying so, but rumor was that Zurn had trouble with metallurgy of their fittings causing premature wear and failure.

                          So you may be putting in bad fitting, wrong pipe, with wrong attachment system.

                          J.C.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Shower arm question

                            I can't say it would really surprise me. back in North Carolina I don't recall the brand of fittings or rings we used, but it was a solid copper ring, that you had specific sizes of crimpers for. when I moved here to missouri, they all used those stainless steel pinch rings, most of what they use here are plastic fittings, but designed just like the metal fittings designed for crimps, not expansion.
                            in a previous thread, I did hear back from Uponor about not allowing expansion foam to contact their EP fittings. but they had no info about the pipe itself, i'm waiting for a reply still from the foam manufacturer on the pipe.
                            that said, we're voiding the warranties by mixing brands of fittings/rings/pipe, which is stupid in my book, but it's a point i've made to my boss, got over ruled on it, and moved along.
                            I believe the argument is that the've been using them for several years this way now, and have had no problems.

                            again, I don't agree with that, but I like my job, and need my paycheck, so I moved along. On the jobs when I can do things the way I want them done, I do it. on the jobs when price and speed are all that matter. well, you regretfully get what you pay for.
                            No, it's not rocket science, it's plumbing and unlike rocket science it requires a license.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Shower arm question

                              I have not seen a Plastic crimp or cinch fitting of any kind. If you can list a company or website sometime. Thanks.

                              J.C.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Shower arm question

                                Did you go to the truck?

                                J.C.

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