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  • #16
    Re: Tankless water heaters. What a load...

    um, here's my question;

    all the supposed energy savings come from not keeping a tank warm, right?

    so all that wasted heat goes where?

    into the house I am heating anyway, no?

    maybe this make smore sense in FL or NV or something, but here it's just silly. the only reason is space.
    This is my reminder to myself that no good will ever come from discussing politics or religion with anyone, ever.

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    • #17
      Re: Tankless water heaters. What a load...

      Originally posted by Ace Sewer View Post
      um, here's my question;

      all the supposed energy savings come from not keeping a tank warm, right?

      so all that wasted heat goes where?

      into the house I am heating anyway, no?

      maybe this make smore sense in FL or NV or something, but here it's just silly. the only reason is space.
      Savings also come from more efficient combustion @ 80-90% efficient vs 65-75% for the tank type water heater.
      spodelee

      Until lions have their own storytellers, stories of the hunt shall always glorify the hunter

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      • #18
        Re: Tankless water heaters. What a load...

        Originally posted by spodelee View Post
        Savings also come from more efficient combustion @ 80-90% efficient vs 65-75% for the tank type water heater.
        savings get washed out the door when you add up the initial cost, and upkeep. there is no savings.

        as i posted a couple months ago. my gas bill for the month is $14.00-15.00.

        this includes my 40 gallon heater, dryer, and gas cook top. oven is electric and furnace is off in the non winter months.

        i only did this install to give real life answer. my 20 year old, 40 gallon gas heater is still installed and turned off for this experiment.

        come april- may i will have the real gas numbers of non heating months.

        remember i already have about $800 tied up in the unit. $70. in the bypass valve assembly, $75 in copper, propress, gal gas pipe plus an afternoon for the install and i still need the outdoor cap $50. and finish the electrical $20 .and remote (2 hours). so it's about $1015. in materials plus my time

        the numbers are ridicous just looking at my current bills. even if i got gas for free (12 months x $15.00 = $180) it would take 15 to 20 years to pay back the free gas bill. then add in the required maintainence and it will never pay.

        rick.
        phoebe it is

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Tankless water heaters. What a load...

          Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
          savings get washed out the door when you add up the initial cost, and upkeep. there is no savings.

          as i posted a couple months ago. my gas bill for the month is $14.00-15.00.

          this includes my 40 gallon heater, dryer, and gas cook top. oven is electric and furnace is off in the non winter months.

          i only did this install to give real life answer. my 20 year old, 40 gallon gas heater is still installed and turned off for this experiment.

          come april- may i will have the real gas numbers of non heating months.

          remember i already have about $800 tied up in the unit. $70. in the bypass valve assembly, $75 in copper, propress, gal gas pipe plus an afternoon for the install and i still need the outdoor cap $50. and finish the electrical $20 .and remote (2 hours). so it's about $1015. in materials plus my time

          the numbers are ridicous just looking at my current bills. even if i got gas for free (12 months x $15.00 = $180) it would take 15 to 20 years to pay back the free gas bill. then add in the required maintainence and it will never pay.

          rick.
          You are preaching to the choir, read 5 posts above this one . Just pointing out that efficiency comes not only from off cycle but also from combustion efficiency. Tankless are more efficient, but they do not make sense after considering installed cost, maintenance and repair.

          There is one consideration that we haven't talked about.... New tank heaters are made so cheap that the life cycle is getting closer to 10 years with good water. I am not talking about just the tank either, the gas valves and temp controls are junk now too. Is it possible that if a guy has to replace his water heater every 10 years that tankless might begin to make sense???

          Yeah, I'm stretchin here, but I like to keep you excited Rick
          Last edited by spodelee; 12-30-2008, 04:23 AM.
          spodelee

          Until lions have their own storytellers, stories of the hunt shall always glorify the hunter

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Tankless water heaters. What a load...

            in short, no

            do you think a tankless will go trouble free/ maintenance free for 10 years

            tank heaters do

            rick.

            i've never sold a tankless to anyone. i've fixed many, many tankless installs. 75% of tankless installs are done wrong. undersized gas, wrong venting, no service shut offs. then how often are people going to call you to flush out as required?

            tankless will go the way of solar domestic water heating of the 70's. when the tax credits go south, the heater will also go south.

            there is so much misconception customers have with tankless. i tell them the facts and they see it the way i do.

            i'm just going to prove it with my install and some time.

            who wants to chip in to support my research project that i'm doing

            send checks to me, not joey. it's my money

            rick.
            phoebe it is

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Tankless water heaters. What a load...

              Originally posted by spodelee View Post
              Savings also come from more efficient combustion @ 80-90% efficient vs 65-75% for the tank type water heater.
              You can get the same efficiency from an indirect tank, and there isn't an additional burner or moving parts to break.

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              • #22
                Re: Tankless water heaters. What a load...

                Well, here in the east there are a lot of boilers around so indirect water heating is more feasable. In the west, not so many boilers. The whole discussion however brings up the question of what is a reasonable monthly operating cost to make hot water? I suppose it depends on useage but it seems to me that we spend a lot of time and effort to solve a problem that really isn't much of a problem. I'm not sure that even if a tankless unit could be purchased and installed for under a hundred bucks that it would be a good idea given the additional service considerations along with the operational quirks that they all seem to suffer. I mean hell, isn't it worth an extra 30 bucks a month to have constant, hot water at a constant temperature? Most folks are willing to pay for comfort and convieniance, otherwise we wouldn't be selling body spray showers and heated bidet seats.
                sigpic

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                • #23
                  Re: Tankless water heaters. What a load...

                  I dont think it matters what WE think. The report says it. Why push a product with such a rating? In the end, we will all look money hungry if this product gets pushed.

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