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  • #16
    Re: When the inspection system fails.

    N.C. has a 1 year warranty, but as I recall it was worded so that the contractor had to make a solid effort at correcting issues, but it wasn't an actual warranty.
    No, it's not rocket science, it's plumbing and unlike rocket science it requires a license.

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    • #17
      Re: When the inspection system fails.

      Originally posted by MoJourneyman View Post
      N.C. has a 1 year warranty, but as I recall it was worded so that the contractor had to make a solid effort at correcting issues, but it wasn't an actual warranty.

      Wow, I can get a longer warranty on a toaster.

      You'd think you would get (or the general public would demand) more than that on one of the biggest purchases you make in your lifetime.
      "It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?" Bob D. 2006

      https://www.youtube.com/user/PowerToolInstitute

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      • #18
        Re: When the inspection system fails.

        Typical for a 12" rough is 12" from the finished wall not 12" the base board. When you mess up, or if you have a framing issue there are 10" and 14" water closets available in limited supply. To me it looks like a 10" should fit without a problem but it does look about 1/4" off of 10" from the finished wall.

        Mark
        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

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        • #19
          Re: When the inspection system fails.

          Originally posted by MoJourneyman View Post
          hrmm, have I been doing it wrong? I always rough my flanges in a half inch further out to make up for the half inch of sheetrock. so I actually put my 12" flange at 12.5 off the studwall. reading JC's reply made me think he would do a 10 inch rough in at 10 inches off the rough studs.
          The rough in dimension is supposed to allow for the rock as I understand. If it had a 10" rough toilet installed there is no warranty issue. I rough in exactly as you do just in case. Had some toilets tank end up .5" away from the wall this way & have had some end up with the tank lid against the drywall even when consistently roughing in at 12.5".

          J.C.

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          • #20
            Re: When the inspection system fails.

            Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
            The rough in dimension is supposed to allow for the rock as I understand. If it had a 10" rough toilet installed there is no warranty issue. I rough in exactly as you do just in case. Had some toilets tank end up .5" away from the wall this way & have had some end up with the tank lid against the drywall even when consistently roughing in at 12.5".

            J.C.
            thanks for the reply, I was just thinking about those crap briggs/proflo toilets that would sometimes end up pressing the sheetrock, even when I roughed it in at 12.5 "I know, a big part of the issue was the proflo"
            No, it's not rocket science, it's plumbing and unlike rocket science it requires a license.

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            • #21
              Re: When the inspection system fails.

              Originally posted by Service Guy View Post
              That is what they used. But it was STILL way off and caused the toilet to clog up and leak.
              the siphon action was broken? sucking air?

              i repaired one like that before. they forced the WC in place and cracked the tank.

              i've also seen the wall board behind the tank cut out so there was enough room.

              Vince

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              • #22
                Re: When the inspection system fails.

                It's nice being a G.C. that does His own plumbing. I frame everything Myself of course.

                I also have the code, and trade knowledge to frame properly for closet flanges,and the rest!

                I know , Many hate Me , That's why I have Big Shoulders.
                I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

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                • #23
                  Re: When the inspection system fails.

                  Originally posted by toolaholic View Post
                  It's nice being a G.C. that does His own plumbing. I frame everything Myself of course.

                  I also have the code, and trade knowledge to frame properly for closet flanges,and the rest!

                  I know , Many hate Me , That's why I have Big Shoulders.
                  I don't hate you......yet.

                  Most GC's here don't even know the framing code and the allowances for movement of framing members, deflection, etc.

                  J.C.

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                  • #24
                    Re: When the inspection system fails.

                    Toilet rough ins are to finished wall:
                    http://www.us.kohler.com/onlinecatal.../1090615_4.pdf (see page two).

                    Unless I need an eye exam, it looks like the center of the flange is 9-1/4" from the base and the base is probably 3/4", so a 10" rough wc should work.

                    Besides framing issues, occasionally a GC neglects to mention that there will be wainscoting (tile, stone, etc.) on the back wall of the toilet room (not shown on the plans). Come to set a toilet that was roughed in at 12-1/2" off the studs and and the flange is at 11" off finished wall, grrrrrrrrr!

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                    • #25
                      Re: When the inspection system fails.

                      Tool
                      I bet I'd rarely have a problem roughing in after you framed out.
                      Plumbus
                      You are correct. Rough in is to finish wall since that is the only relevant point.
                      Service guy
                      The failure isn't the inspector's, it's the installer's. The inspector isn't going to check the rough in of every fixture, not knowing what is going in. Example: Duravit Happy D toilets have rough in's all across the board(including rear outlet from the same toilet), far in excess of the 10" 12" and 14" we have with many toilets. How is it the inspectors responsibility to know what toilet you are installing.
                      I don't mean to run you down but I think in this instance you where short sighted.
                      Mike
                      Last edited by myakka; 01-03-2009, 08:48 PM. Reason: emoticon infiltration!

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                      • #26
                        Re: When the inspection system fails.

                        In my hundreds of projects inspectors have not once checked any one of my thousands of my rough-ins.It would be pretty obvious to all persons that I was doing my job incorrectly and would have to pay to correct.

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                        • #27
                          Re: When the inspection system fails.

                          I;m getting 3 different trade inspections on every job. I appreciate it when they know, and do their job. On the last bath addition the building Insp. signed all the trades. He admitted
                          He was weak on plumbing. I actually gave Him a tutorial on total fixture units ect.
                          And pointed out the upc didn't require the Two cleanouts installed. Drain cleaners down the road will appreciate them. See RICK , I listen to You!!
                          I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

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                          • #28
                            Re: When the inspection system fails.

                            The "fix" for the situation in the picture is a simple one:



                            If Kohler makes a 10" rough, you all know the new ones, the tanks sit way far away from the wall. You could get by with a new 10" rough toilet and be done with it.


                            If not,


                            Then trace that tank and recess it into the wall, cut into the studs if you have to to recess the tank and allow a gap for removal of the lid. It has to be better than chopping up that wood floor or underneath it and getting into structural work, against the latter idea I just mentioned.



                            Also,

                            I'd take a camera down that pipe and see if there is any piping that is either not deburred or cut at a traverse angle that's not square to the hub it is glued in.


                            I would push that line of thinking harder than assuming just because the bell is pushed forward in the closet flange, considering that is the problem.


                            I'm thinking it's entirely something else, and an offset flange could still be used for this. I don't like them, but sometimes they are a must.


                            Camera that drain, you might be surprised to see a possible hang up.



                            Sometimes 10" rough-in toilets are junk, but if anyone has a good one they've had luck with, post it. I put in a 10" rough Mansfield and haven't heard another complaint with leaking, or clogging, given they had chronic closet flange problems before I made corrections to the situation.
                            Last edited by DUNBAR PLUMBING; 01-03-2009, 09:54 PM.
                            Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

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                            • #29
                              Re: When the inspection system fails.

                              When an inspector does an inspection there are hundreds of things he could look at. However, he is not there to be the expert at plumbing, he is there to keep the plumber honest. It is the plumber who is licensed not the inspector. The responsibility to do it right lies on the plumber not the inspector. I use to have inspectors sign the card at the curb all the time because they would tell me I knew more about plumbing than they ever would. I called an inspector one day to figure out permit costs to repipe the attics of 100+ units in a community. The inspector told me not to bother with permits as he wasn't going to climb through the attics anyways. Of course the same inspector booked me as the speaker for his monthly ICBO meeting as well.

                              Mark
                              "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                              I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

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                              • #30
                                Re: When the inspection system fails.

                                Dunbar
                                I think you are on to it!
                                Mike

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